Removal of 2 walls.

[Screech20]

Hey guys.

Following another thread of mine regarding the removal of 2 walls, I've become a bit more confused with how I go about it.

I understand I need to get the BCO to see things before and after (or just after?) and they need to see the structural calcs, or/and drawings? But who is my first port of call?

I plan on doing the work myself, I am good hand on and believe this is something I can do, but obviously I need to be told what can and can't be just knocked down.


So do I need an engineer, architect or surveyer first? Or even BC?


Cheers

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Apply for BC approval first, then get SE calcs. It is very likely that BC will want to see the support in place and uncovered and the non-combustible/fire resistant product you intend to encase it in.
I assume this is a structural supporting wall?

 

[Screech20]

Thank you. I shall call them next week and start the process.

It's a bungalow, no part of the roof is on either wall, but the ceiling joists overlap on top of one of them.

Cheers

 

[oldbutnotdead]

You can call them today if you want to- anything like ours up here, they're at work and bored. Do a sketch drawing of the bungalow as it is now and what you want to achieve (ie how much of each wall you'll be leaving as a 'nib')- it'll make the phone call easier and you'll need it anyway to attach to the Building Notice (which will have a cost). If you use prefabricated lintels (rather than RSJs) and the structure is conventional then you may not need SE calcs- I tend to use these http://www.birtleylintels.co.uk/literature cos they're local (so I can collect if I'm in a hurry) but do shop around for price- weirdly the cheapest is usually a bunch called Condell down South somewhere.

 

[Screech20]

Unfortunately deciding on nibs and what lintel is where I need the help, from the SE?
I understand I don't necessarily need SE calcs, but it's not something I can do.

I can probably sketch it out, but not sure how helpful it would be.

I'm hoping not to have to leave nibs, I was made aware that I shouldn't need to as the walls under a certain height/length?
I also want to achieve no down stand.

Cheers

 

[tony1851]

If the beams are only holding up ceiling joists, then you won't need nibs against the wall - dont let any SE tell you otherwise.

However, are you sure that at least one of the walls is not supporting part of the roof? Often, you will find a prop from the top of a wall going
up to a main beam (aka 'purlin') supporting the rafters.

If you want no downstand, that is perfectly possible but is tricky to do, and will cost a little more in builder's time. The builder would also need to chamfer the top of at least one of the beams to get it in between the wall plate and underside of the rafters. A second consideration is that this will entail cutting some ceiling joists, and these also provide a tying-function to stop the rafters spreading out.

 

[^woody^]

There is being able to do something, and there is knowing how to do something. Two different things.

You need someone experienced enough to tell you if you can remove these walls, and what needs to be done in terms of any structural support or bracing. The council inspector wont tell you this, just check what you have done and tell you if its right or wrong.

A structural engineer or building surveyor (with structural expertise) can tell you if what you propose is viable, and could also tell you what is any structural supports are needed.

Other things to consider are fire precautions, means of escape and electrics. Ideally, your adviser should be experienced enough to advise on all relevant things not just the structural part.

First get someone in to advise you. They will also advise you if you need to apply to the council and for what things. Then if you need the work designed, that person should do that. Then if you need to apply to the council, apply and send the design in. Once that has been approved, then do the work. The council will only normally check once the structural supports are in place and uncovered, and then again (maybe) once all covered up and everything else completed.

 

[Screech20]

Thanks Tony.

However, are you sure that at least one of the walls is not supporting part of the roof? Often, you will find a prop from the top of a wall going
up to a main beam (aka 'purlin') supporting the rafters.

Yes I'm sure, there's nothing above these 2 walls that attach to the roof.
The perlins have supports that come from another wall.

 

[Screech20]

There is being able to do something, and there is knowing how to do something. Two different things.

You need someone experienced enough to tell you if you can remove these walls, and what needs to be done in terms of any structural support or bracing. The council inspector wont tell you this, just check what you have done and tell you if its right or wrong.

A structural engineer or building surveyor (with structural expertise) can tell you if what you propose is viable, and could also tell you what is any structural supports are needed.

Other things to consider are fire precautions, means of escape and electrics. Ideally, your adviser should be experienced enough to advise on all relevant things not just the structural part.

First get someone in to advise you. They will also advise you if you need to apply to the council and for what things. Then if you need the work designed, that person should do that. Then if you need to apply to the council, apply and send the design in. Once that has been approved, then do the work. The council will only normally check once the structural supports are in place and uncovered, and then again (maybe) once all covered up and everything else completed.

So I should find a SE and get him to come out, go through what I'd like to achieve and him to advise from there?

Cheers

 

[^woody^]

So I should find a SE and get him to come out, go through what I'd like to achieve and him to advise from there?

Yes that would be a plan.

But, when contacting one, tell him what you want to do and ask specifically if he/his firm has experience with building regulations and will be able to advise on any other relevant matters, and not just the beam design.

They might work on an hourly basis or a fixed fee. So get that confirmed, so you know what you will be getting and for how much.

Bare in mind that you might be able to use timber or a standard lintel instead of a steel beam - so SE should be experienced enough to tell you this. Also some councils might not need structural calculations for standard loading situations - as yours might be. Phone the council's building control team and ask.

 

[Screech20]

Great, thanks woody. Will bear the questions in mind and phone BC for advice before spending money on a SE.

One thing I've just thought of, when the BCO come to check things over, is he likely to ask what's going on in the bathroom? As ive just read that doing in the bathroom, (putting in a bath and moving basin) ideally need BC too. (Not that anyone really bothers!)


Cheers

 

[^woody^]

No they don't mooch about

 

[Screech20]

Sorry I didn't mention these 2 wall removals and 1 up will form the bathroom and kitchen.

 

[Screech20]

Just been having a play with sketch up and drawn this out to see what my ideas look like on paper.
I didn't notice before that I've already got 2 joist binders in place, which now I'm thinking I may get away with using the new wall for the joists to rest on, and with the use of an additional binder, no need for a beam/steal..
Or am I over thinking things?

(The blue are the walls to come out, and the dotted lines is the wall to go up.)

Cheers

 

[Screech20]

If the beams are only holding up ceiling joists, then you won't need nibs against the wall - dont let any SE tell you otherwise.

That's great to hear, I shall make note and argue the point if need be!

Cheers.