Central heating in new build

[Richard C]

A pensioner neighbor of mine is about to demolish an old 40's pre-fab bungalow & replace it with a new build that they intend to live in. One of the builders he's getting a quote from has said they won't be able to have oil fired heating (rural here so no gas) & is really pushing for them to go for an air source heating system. I know these can be efficient & are often recommended for conservatories but are they a good bet for a whole house system? They obviously use electricity & my neighbor is concerned about the possibility of high running costs & doesn't particularly want to be part of the builders experimental installation in their new home.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the government (EEC?) intends bringing in legislation that will virtually outlaw gas & oil fired central heating in around 20 years but I wasn't aware of any current regulations that would rule out my neighbor installing an oil fired heating system, can anyone advise?

 

[KenGMac]

Richard C, Hi

Have a look at so called Bio Mass?

Timber pellet heat source where the fuel is pellets of processed timber drip fed into a combustion chamber where it [would you believe] smoulder but do not burn with a large flame. the trick is the heat capture at this point?

The residue is minimal, so the upkeep is small, down side is the initial cost of installation?

I looked at a Hotel with 60+ rooms + all hot water for bathing. and kitchens Etc. Etc. OK there were two such boilers but it appeared to be highly cost effective??

Worth a look? No oil, No electrical heating, just a delivery in bulk now and again of the pellets, that are by the way also sold as cat litter, if your cat likes it? The system is ideal for rural locations ?

Ken.

 

[Phill Peck]

Air source will be fine if the house and system are designed correctly.
Get in contact with a heating engineer that knows ASHPs

 

[Echo the husky]

I too am a fan of air source HPs, just not ones made by Bosch.

 

[Richard C]

Thanks to all for the response. Due to very fortunate circumstance, my neighbours find themselves with a once in a lifetime opportunity for a "new build" & give them financial security for the rest of their lives. They are both into their 70's & have used oil heating all their life & it's something they are familiar with & trust. At their age, they have no wish to become/risk being part of a government/EEU experiment to replace conventional heating systems with generally more expensive to install but much less proven systems & I don't blame them. They are also being told by this builder they will need to fit solar panels & whilst I think they work well for hot water (I have 4 tucked away on my roof), I wouldn't go near photovoltaic panels. Ugly, inefficient & the reduced domestic feed in tariff makes them no longer viable IMO. My neighbours feel they are being pressured into things they know nothing about, don't really need or want & have asked for my help & advise.

Whilst being very conversant with planning & building regulations up to around 2011, I am now at least 5 years out of date with the current & rather than spend lots of time re-reading it all, thought the quickest solution might be to post back on here. As far as I'm aware they can't be forced to fit solar panels (can they?) & they have simply asked me why they can't just stick with an oil system they know & understand.

 

[Phill Peck]

If there's oil tank there now I can't see how planning can be turned down for not using renewables. If they do insist. Use solar for hw.
I agree with you let them have something they are comfortable with. At the end of the day it's their house/money

 

[Richard C]

No existing oil tank; the existing pre-fab bungalow on the plot (to be demolished) has electric storage heaters & they definitely don't want that. Is renewable energy now part of the requirement for new builds?

Should I post a similar thread in Building Regs & Planning?

 

[simond]

I believe Building Regulations are different in Scotland, but there is no ban on oil fired heating in the UK.

Quite the opposite, sales of oil fired systems are higher than they have been for years. The British public have started to realise that 'renewables' don't work quite as well as they were led to believe. They also have come to the conclusion that the Feed in Tariffs are way of redistributing money from the poor to the already wealthy. Luckily the current Government have been busy reducing the incentives for the more cash rich to inflate their bank account at the expense of everyone else. People saying they put in biomass, or PV, for the planet are usually being disingenious*; they have up until recently been rewarded very handsomely by everyone else.

The so-called (foreign holiday-taking using kerosene powered planes) environmentalists are being quietened by the news that there is plenty of oil for the foreseeable future demand. In fact, it has become clear that when the countries that were metering out the supply of oil to keep the price inflated, lost control due to fracking etc, the real price is far lower and there is much more of it than they wanted us to think. Pretty much every oil tanker capable of floating is full of oil, many moored up hoping the price of crude will rise.

The biomass or woodchip brigade (and I'm a biomass qualified installer) don't want you to know that the woodchip supply in this country is nowhere near big enough to feed even current demand so most woodchips are loaded onto ships from other parts of the world, then oil fired across the oceans, where an oil fired truck will drive across our green and pleasant land to deliver them. You can then burn them and spead your particulates across the land.


And electricity, on one hand part of the government are telling us this is the future of heating with heatpumps, another part are shutting power stations down and jeopardising our supply.

Meanwhile another department have quietly set up privately sponsored small scale generating stations across the country at inflated contract prices. These are designed to step in emergencies because our current power network is so close to the edge. And what do these expensive small scale power stations use as fuel?

Diesel.

This is the future, I'm so glad to be part of it.


*I should mention that I personally installed PV on my house to make money, and I am very grateful for the 50p per Kw everyone who hasn't got PV is paying me. But hypocritically, I think it is wrong. My wife has always said we shouldn't have done it.

 

[Richard C]

Thanks simond. As an aside, a friend has a large commercial Biomass installation heating a sheltered housing complex + his own large bungalow, indoor swimming pool, Jacuzzi & sauna! The system cost over £120k to install, excluding his own considerable building work costs but he gets around £4k/month in commercial subsidy. The long term gain is the only reason he installed it, he'll get his money back in little over 3 years & the installation with it's subsidy should be good for at least another 7 years with manageable servicing costs. I find it difficult to criticise him for taking advantage of the situation though.

It's not been without problems though as he's discovered in the two years it's been running + the sheer quantity, delivery, storage & management of wood chip needed keeps him busy! I doubt it's convenience for most domestic situations though & also doubt the subsidy would be anywhere near as generous!

 

[Agile]

It is very bold of Simon D to tell you the truths about biomass supply.

The idea looked good when it ran on waste offcuts of wood. But the subsidies made more install it and the demand outstrips the amount of waste available so its now supplied by overseas trees grown just to feed the demand.

Cavemen used to burn wood too!

Nuclear power is the real future but that's unpopular with the public who don't understand how it works and don't know the difference between ionising and non ionising radiation. The massive capital cost has delayed decisions and in the meantime we burn gas to provide our electricity.

Tony

 

[PullerGas]

New Build. Big thermal mass concrete floor, UFH & ASHP. Plus, stove in the living room for these really cold days in mid winter. With a good quality multi fuel stove they can burn most of their household rubbish & in rural areas there's always a supply of fuel.

The UFH in a large thermal mass will run at a low mean water temperature & ideal for an air source heat pump. They can get the best leccy tariff by shopping around leccy suppliers. Kero prices will rise again, historically they always have & there's loads more servicing/ repairs with oil.

 

[simond]

I agree that an ASHP might be good with underfloor heating. However, no ASHP salesmen ever mention that you can't usually heat your stored HW when the Central Heating is on. You can't get an ASHP combi boiler. There is also the noise issue in rural locations.

Regarding price volatility of fuels, I can be certain that the price of electricity in this country keeps rising. The price of oil goes up, certainly, but it also goes down.

 

[PullerGas]

I agree that an ASHP might be good with underfloor heating. However, no ASHP salesmen ever mention that you can't usually heat your stored HW when the Central Heating is on. You can't get an ASHP combi boiler. There is also the noise issue in rural locations.

Regarding price volatility of fuels, I can be certain that the price of electricity in this country keeps rising. The price of oil goes up, certainly, but it also goes down.

Dear oh dear!! Have you any conception of how little Hot Water is used in a modern home??!! Cold fill Dish Washer, Washing Machine etc etc etc. Also, if they're Coffin Dodgers, chances are they'll not use a Bath either. So an electric shower & a moderately sized E7 cylinder should take care of all their HW needs. Also a well designed system can incorporate the multi fuel stove to heat their domestic Hot Water too.

Mate, you've been fitting Whoofter Tupperware Botch too long!! Oh with that in mind, and I know it's a bit of industrial espionage, but I managed to get hold of a photo of their new prototype combustion chamber;


Please don't share it with the rest of the brain washed WB installers - for fear of reprisals!!