Whats the Bora 1.9 TDI cam belt change intervals?

[Mottie]

Might I ask where you stand on motors with unkeyed crank/cam sprockets? Ie, do you loosen the sprockets and time up fresh each time, or leave the sprockets bolted on and mark them up? The differences in opinion seem polarised, to say the least! I'm leaning towards loosening the sprockets as the best method, but I haven't done hundreds of them.

Generally, I lock crank in position using whatever methods needed, then I have a tool that locks the two cam pulleys together. I mark everything with tippex before removal just in case one of the locking tools falls out!

I used to loosen cam pulleys and reset as per the book but I've found it makes no difference to the running of the engine and it normally requires the cam covers to be removed etc which takes some extra time. Of course, if a belt has broken or the heads been off then you have to do it all by the book. What's important for the smooth, quiet running of the belt is getting the belt tension correct.

I don't get involved in anything really complicated, just your average bog standard vehicles.

 

[DIYspanner]

I did the belt on my nephew's 2002 1.2 8V Punto last week. Quite a simple task. Didn't need any of the sprockets locked.

Just a pity the Bora 1.9 TDI PD has the engine mount in the way - makes it a difficult job indeed!

I'd considered putting the Bora into a local diesel car specialist and called to get a quote for fitting the belt kit if I supplied it.

"About £150 mate"

Considering I've had to get a replacement engine mount, which the garage would probably have bought new (£90 + vat) at VW, the plus is I've saved lots of pennies doing it myself.

 

[keyplayer]

Sorry for the partial hijack DIYSpanner, although it is relevant to the subject! Thanks burnerman and motman for your replies. I'm going to be doing a zetec 1.25 belt/water pump this weekend and got a set of Laser locking tools (4347) to do it. They were only 20 quid and I'm going to use them and loosen the cam sprockets as per the book. But I can't really see that they are essential as some of the Ford forums would maintain. As long as one can be confident that the crank is where it was when the old belt came off, (I'd be perfectly happy with tippex on the ring gear for this) and the unloosened cam sprockets are adequately marked and as they were I can't see how you could go wrong. Obviously you have to tension the belt correctly before tightening the crank bolt, but the new tensioner that came with my dayco belt kit has a pin that you simply pull out after bolting it on and supposedly that's all there is to it.

Great thread by the way, good luck with finishing the job!

 

[DaveHerns]

If I'd loosened cam sprockets I'd be worrying about them slipping later. Give me cams keyed to sprockets anyday.

 

[DIYspanner]

I for one will not be loosening the cam sprocket off. There's enough play in the bolt slots for the sprocket to end up a tooth out.

I remember many years ago hearing a story from a local farmer who'd always had trouble getting one of his tractors started, usually had to be tow started. One day he had a mechanic in to do some servicing on the tractor. The mechanic took the gear train cover off and rotating the engine noticed the injector pump sprocket was a tooth out. He adjusted it and the tractor started no bother from then on.

 

[DIYspanner]

Job done!

Got the engine mount delivered this morning.

Tensioner indicator smack bang in the middle of the slot.

I had to loosen the camshaft sprocket after all. The belt was just that bit to tight to get it on without loosening. Belt on and all torqued up, two rotations of the camshaft and it aligned perfectly with the crankshaft.

All bolts torqued up bar the new bolts which are supposed to go to 100Nm but I got as tight as I felt they would go.

Since the rain has made an appearance, I’m going to trust in mother nature that it doesn’t freeze tonight as I’m in the process of flushing the old antifreeze out. On its 2nd neat water fill.

 

[Burnerman]

Excellent and well done! I usually run the engine with the top belt cover off so I can see the tensioner working.
Bear in mind there's still a fair bit of water inside the engine (remember when you took the water pump off) so it's awkward to judge the antifreeze concentration.
John

 

[Mottie]

Sorry for the partial hijack DIYSpanner, although it is relevant to the subject! Thanks burnerman and motman for your replies. I'm going to be doing a zetec 1.25 belt/water pump this weekend and got a set of Laser locking tools (4347) to do it. They were only 20 quid and I'm going to use them and loosen the cam sprockets as per the book. But I can't really see that they are essential as some of the Ford forums would maintain. As long as one can be confident that the crank is where it was when the old belt came off, (I'd be perfectly happy with tippex on the ring gear for this) and the unloosened cam sprockets are adequately marked and as they were I can't see how you could go wrong. Obviously you have to tension the belt correctly before tightening the crank bolt, but the new tensioner that came with my dayco belt kit has a pin that you simply pull out after bolting it on and supposedly that's all there is to it.

Great thread by the way, good luck with finishing the job!

With those engines, the crank pulley bolt is a stretch bolt. Make sure you use the new bolt supplied with the kit. I use a powerful impact wrench to remove the bolt (18mm socket) and even then I have to warm it up with a blow torch. Make sure you tighten it according to spec and don't expect the crankshaft locking pin to hold the crank when you do the final tighten! Either remove the starter and lock the flywheel or put it in gear and get someone to hold their foot on the brake. Yes, the tensioner is auto adjusting on them so you can't muck that up. Another tip - loosen the water pump pulley bolts before you remove the belt and tighten them up after you've refitted it.

 

[DIYspanner]

The only fasteners that came with the Gates belt kit are the two nuts for the tensioner and guide pulley.

The crank pulley has x4 bolts which torque to 5Nm + 90 degrees. I got the 5Nm but well too tight after that to go another 90 degrees.

One thing about the crank pulley, it has a timing mark on its rim and there's a nipple on the crank sprocket face. Four possible holes on the pulley for the nipple. Didn't know which one to use but the engine is runnig canny with it back on.

 

[Burnerman]

MOT is dealing with the Zetec engine there.....
I thought the crank pulley had 4 bolt holes -right enough- plus one where a pip helped it to locate?
John

 

[Mottie]

Eh? I've done a couple of them in the last month or so. You normally get more than one crank pulley bolt as they are different lengths - you must use the one that's the same length as you took out. Have a look at this kit and see what I mean.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GATES-K045433XS-Timing-Belt-Kit-/400997758070?fits=Model:Fiesta|Cars+Year:2012|Cars+Type:1.25&hash=item5d5d543476:g:LTEAAOSwQTVV~TOH

From memory, some Vauxhalls have 4 small bolts holding the crank pulley on but they have a seperate main pulley bolt that you don't take out. Never heard of the small pulley bolts being stretch bolts either so no need for the 90° tighten either.

 

[Burnerman]

Apologies for my confusing post! You were referring to the Zetec pulley, I was back to the VW one.
John

 

[Mottie]

Lol. I thought I was going mad!

 

[DIYspanner]

Forgot to mention, the engine mount.

If anyone does a timing belt on a Bora TDI PD engine and ends up having to replace the mount, it can be removed by sliding it down the front of the engine. With the engine lowered on a jack, once at the bottom, rotate the bottom of the mount towards the front of the car, then twist it so it drops out.

The belt needs to be fed around the lug of the replacement mount when moving the new mount in. The bolt near the water pump should be in place as well. A bit of masking tape to stop it dropping out.

That's what worked for me.


To reward myself for a job well done, I rewarded myself to a set of 3/8" impact sockets as they'll be that much stronger than normal sockets.

Now waiting for the snow storm to go away so I can do the antifreeze. The met says its meant to be bright and sunny this morning.

 

[Burnerman]

The engines don't seem to mind being raised and lowered to crazy angles......flexible exhaust mountings help this greatly.
Another of my tricks is to jack the engine over to the nearside with a scissor jack jammed between block and inner wing, and on one occasion I had to remove the nearside engine mount too.
John