Does this look right?

[EFLImpudence]

I'm a fan of fused spurs above teh counter for appliances.... if I need to defrost the freezer, or I have pressed go on the washing machine without putting the tablet in and need to realse the door, I don't want to have to pull the bloody things forward in order to switch them off. Yes you end up with two 13A fuses in series, but does it matter....

Mine have switches on them to turn them off.

 

[JohnW2]

Mine have switches on them to turn them off.

So do mine. However, I think that I have in the past had ones which didn't.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Yes. You need to revisit the precise wording, and consider a)what it permits, and b)what it proscribes.

OK, I'm now reunited with my BYBP.

As you obviously must know, what it says is "Accessories to BS1363 may be supplied through a ring final circuit, with or without unfused spurs, protected by a 30 A or 32 A protective device .... The circuit shall be wired with copper conductors having line and neutral conductors with a minimum cross-sectional area of 2.5 mm² except ...."

I think in common with most other people, I have always taken the "may be supplied" to indicated what one is permitted to supply with a circuit such as described. I admit that it does not explicitly indicate anything that may not be supplied by such a circuit but (again, I think, in common with most people) I have always taken the reg to be saying that only BS1363 accessories may be supplied by such a circuit.

I presume you disagree with that interpretation. If that is the case, do I take it that your view is that, in the absence of any explicit prohibitions, one can supply absolutely anything from such a circuit and still be compliant with the reg (which begs the question as to why they bothered to single out BS1363 accessories for explicit mention)?

I will be interested to hear whether anyone else agrees with your interpretation.

Kind Regards, John

 

[333rocky333]

Im sure i either read or see a diagram that you can connect an mcb to a ring circuit, I dont mean the one in the CU.

 

[JohnW2]

Im sure i either read or see a diagram that you can connect an mcb to a ring circuit, I dont mean the one in the CU.

I can't say I've ever heard of that. Nor can I really think of any reason why one would want to do it (or be allowed to do it!). An FCU can be used for loads up to 13A (i.e. about 3kW), and it's hard to think of what load >3kW one would want to (or should be allowed to) connect to a ring final via an MCB. However, maybe I'm missing something obvious!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Junction boxes are not BS1363.

 

[John D v2.0]

Junction boxes are not BS1363.

Indeed, and I'm not sure junction boxes are "supplied " either, so sounds like a badly worded reg.

 

[stillp]

I have always taken the reg to be saying that only BS1363 accessories may be supplied by such a circuit.

I agree that many people take that view, and it might be justified by other requirements of the Standard, but that text does not contain or imply the word "only".

 

[EFLImpudence]

Indeed, and I'm not sure junction boxes are "supplied " either, so sounds like a badly worded reg.

I was going to mention the 'supplied' reference with regard to JBs and 20A switches.

I decided not to because I didn't think sockets or FCUs were really 'supplied' either.

Surely either they all are or none is.

 

[stillp]

Surely everything connected to a source of energy is "supplied"?

 

[John D v2.0]

Probably no one has had to argue that one in court. Things like bonding and disconnection time are important, but things like whether you can connect a 20a switch to a ring....

There's probably more random stuff like 2 core flex and ceiling roses connected to rings than 20A switches, and I know what I would be more worried about.

 

[EFLImpudence]

There is no reason why a 20A switch should not be 'supplied through' a ring circuit; it is in no way different than a 32A radial, on which they are not prohibited.

Therefore I just cannot believe they intended prohibition on a ring.

 

[stillp]

If it was the intention of the writers of BS7671 that only accessories to BS1363 may be supplied by a ring final, they could very easily have added the word "only". However, they didn't, and haven't.

 

[JohnW2]

If it was the intention of the writers of BS7671 that only accessories to BS1363 may be supplied by a ring final, they could very easily have added the word "only". However, they didn't, and haven't.

That's true. However, as I said, if it were their intention not to disallow anything (i.e. to allow anything to be 'supplied'), it's hard to see why they singled out BS1363 accessories for mention - and I think that's why most of us have always assumed (yes, I know!) that they meant "only", even though they did not include that word.

As for junction boxes they do, of course, appear in the diagram of a ring final in Appendix 15 of BS7671 - just to confuse things a bit more!

Kind Regards, John

 

[stillp]

if it were their intention not to disallow anything (i.e. to allow anything to be 'supplied')

Don't forget that all the other relevant requirements still apply to things that are not in accordance with BS1363. I believe that the text is giving what might be termed a presumption of conformity, i.e. accessories to BS 1363 are deemed to be suitable, use anything else and you have to check that all the relevant requirements are met and the item is in fact suitable for connection to a ring final.