How to sell a boiler II

[AGAS]

You will find he is just relaying cr@p from his pen friends so we will have to wait for the next first class service from the post office to get more sense about boiler testing from old berny

 

[bernardgreen]

How do you know that is ALL the test parameters.

Total heat output = total heat input = useful heat + wasted heat
Efficiency shown as a percentage is ( useful heat / total heat input ) x 100
That is the absolute efficiency of the appliance, it can never exceed 100%

If the best result at the time of the tests creation was 100%,

if that 100% was the absolute efficiency then the appliance was pefect and could not be improved.

and subsequently, technology improved.

you cannot improve an appliance that is already perfect in terms of efficiency in converting fuel into useful heat

Unless the test is redefined, then any results beyond what was originally possible will be greater than 100%

Redefine the test, how, the basic test is to measure how much heat is transfered compared to how much heat was produced by the combustion of the fuel. How can that be redefined.

A boiler with the best available performance may have an absolute efficiency of 50% but be performance rated as 100% because with the technology available the useful heat output is 100% of what can be achieved. Test results will show 50% efficiency. Developing technology may result in a new design that has an absolute effciency of 75%. What performance percentage does that imply ? One could "translate" using the same factor of double ( performance / absolute ) and get 150%.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Speculation and hearsay. You have no idea what the test was.

You have not explained how the test house (NOT the manufacturer) has come to the results.

It is THE TEST HOUSE that have put 122% on the certificate; so there is nothing fraudulent about it.

 

[bernardgreen]

You will find he is just relaying cr@p from his pen friends

I am posting my own opinions which are based on A level physics from the 1960's and experience and knowledge gained over many years.

 

[Dan Robinson]

So did you do boiler and PFHR testing in 1960's A levels?

 

[bernardgreen]

It is THE TEST HOUSE that have put 122% on the certificate; so there is nothing fraudulent about it.

So this supposedly reputable and independent TEST HOUSE is happy to produce and publish results which defy the laws of science.

Or have they been very careful to say that this 122% efficiency is a performance value produced by comparing the test sample's absolute efficiency with the absolute effciency of a less efficient boiler that has been tested previously.

 

[Dan Robinson]

There is no mention of performance on the certificate.

So your A levels did not include PFHR, boilers or stack losses when you sat them 70 years ago? And you don't think senility could be playing a part anywhere? .

 

[bernardgreen]

So did you do boiler and PFHR testing in 1960's A levels?

So your A levels did not include PFHR, boilers or stack losses when you sat them 70 years ago?

2017- 70 = 1947 and not 1960's, being good at maths and getting accurate (valid) results is important when calculating boiler efficiency.

One experiment we did ( even before O levels ) was to determine the calorific value of methylated spirit by heating a known volume of water so it was a very practical education.

My experience with monitoring systems for industrial boilers came some years after the A levels.

 

[Agile]

It is THE TEST HOUSE that have put 122% on the certificate; so there is nothing fraudulent about it.

That implies that you will accept that a boiler can be more than 100% efficient at recovering the heat available from the fuel?

But presumably these test houses are rather silent at exactly how their 122% is defined !

Unless they can bend the laws of physics which we live with.

Cue for ChrisR to explain black holes and other exceptions!

 

[Dan Robinson]

But again.... It depends on what the test was and when it was defined.

 

[Dan Robinson]

2017- 70 = 1947 and not 1960's, being good at maths and getting accurate (valid) results is important when calculating boiler efficiency

I am posting my own opinions which are based on A level physics from the 1960's and experience and knowledge gained over many years.

****************

 

[Hot&Cold]

I am posting my own opinions which are based on A level physics from the 1960's and experience and knowledge gained over many years.

Did not think Google has been around that long

 

[Agile]

It is THE TEST HOUSE that have put 122% on the certificate; so there is nothing fraudulent about it.

I am surprised that all the boiler makers don't go to that Test House so they can also "achieve" these magical efficiency figures!

Double Dutch comes to mind!

 

[Hot&Cold]

Maybe they buy second hand test equipment from a leading car manufacture,

 

[Agile]

Maybe they buy second hand test equipment from a leading car manufacture,

Are you thinking of Volkswaggon?