PIV electrics

So, accepting that, as I cannot argue
No no no.

Fundamental rule, applicable to absolutely everything- you never, ever accept something you are told by a person who says "I have the evidence but I will not show it to you".
Corollary rule of thumb - proceed as if the balance of probability is that they are lying to you.
 
No, I accept that but Stillp was suggesting that fewer fires in the UK were the result of lower rated plug fuses than they have elsewhere.
He was.

But he will be utterly unable to provide any proof that his suggestion was not nonsense.
 
Playing with words again. You're only able to use them because they exist.
With respect, you're either being silly or not reading what I write. Of course I would not be able to use 'low-rated' plug fuses if they didn't exist (either because they weren't manufactured or because I lived somewhere that did not use plug fuses at all). As I said, I do live in a country which uses plug fuses, but I would not use anything other than 13A ones if I did not think that there was a potential benefit to be had by using lower-rated ones.
What has that got to do with it?
Everything, I would have said. You said that the issue of plug fuses only arose because of ring finals. In response, I suggested that unfused plugs on a 32A radial probably would not be regarded as acceptable.
I said I can't prove a negative. I have never said there is a positive downside.
I maintain that there is no positive upside ...
If neither of us can think of a positive downside, but I (but not you) think that there is conceivably a positive upside, can you not understand why I feel that one might as well do it (given that it essentially comes with no cost).
... - otherwise (at least some of) the rest of the world would have introduced them.
It may well have been considered 'impractical' in countries which do not have fused plugs, since it would presumably require the installation of multiple 3A circuits, and probably the invention of some new plug/socket to prevent things being plugged into the wrong socket.
Conversely, give us an example of a positive upside of fitting 3A fuses..
I am sure you would already have done so were there one.
I have repeatedly explained what 'potential positive upside' that I see. In the absence of downsides, a 'potential upside' (even if only slight) swings the balance in favour of that approach. It may conceivable occasionally do good, and the 'worst' that can happen is that it provides no benefit.

Think of a person with a serious illness who is offered a choice of two treatments. There is no known downside of either, but one of them might conceivably (but very probably not) offer a slightly greater chance of saving their life. Which would they choose?

Kind Regards, John
 
That may be so, but it is not what the fuse is for.
No? Would you be happy with a fuse than had a built-in 10 minute time delay (at any current)? It's not just the magnitude of a current that matters in terms of damage, fires, etc., but also the duration of that current - in other words the 'let-through energy'.

Kind Regards, John
 
I suggested that unfused plugs on a 32A radial probably would not be regarded as acceptable.
If the flex from the plug had acceptable fault protection from the 32A circuit device, what would make an unfused plug unacceptable?

If a 32A radial was used to supply BS EN 60309 sockets, what would be the minimum flex size you would like to mandate for a 1kW electric fire?
 
No? Would you be happy with a fuse than had a built-in 10 minute time delay (at any current)?
Would it provide adequate fault protection?

Or would churning the adiabatic calculation for it show that you were being preposterous?
 
Would it provide adequate fault protection? ... Or would churning the adiabatic calculation for it show that you were being preposterous?
Don't you understand that that was the very point I was making - to try to get winston to understand that limiting the let-through energy is a crucial aspect of the functioning of a fuse?

Kind Regards, John
 
I don't know what he understands, (I suspect very little).

But I wasn't asking him - I was asking you.

Would it provide adequate fault protection or not?
 
Would it provide adequate fault protection or not?
You know the answer to that as well as I do. You also surely understand that it was simply an extreme example to try to get winston to understand that 't' is important as well as "I" - but not only in relation to disconnection times in the case of a fault, but also in terms of the amount of damage done by an overload prior to the device operating.

Kind Regards, John
 

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