letter from Boris Johnson to Donald Tusk

[durhamplumber]

Why do you not agree with facts? Seriously what is wrong with you people

Why are you obsessed with the word fact ...Seriously,you cannot be that dim as to think everyone economic prediction is gospel just because you say it is??? Or are you really that shot away?

 

[durhamplumber]

We were the fifth largest economy in the world when we joined in 1973.

Yes,,,the coal industry,,ships,etc well shafted with help from Germany..

 

[fillyboy]

I wonder how Boris is getting on.

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/poli...ith-five-minutes-of-nazi-jokes-20190821188396

 

[JohnD]

Yes,,,the coal industry,,ships,etc well shafted...

ah, so you can remember the industrial days before Thatcher.

 

[Lower]

1. Wow so you are against stronger worker rights.

As to State Aid. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35933904

The Government can own companies like any other investor. Our utilities are owned by foreign EU governments.

2. You may not agree but that is the fact.

3. What is this fascination with steel? Is Steel the new fisheries. Smells of Trumpolitics. For a FTA you negotiate tariffs - what matters in any negotiation is who holds the power. We became the fifth biggest by remaining within the EU.

4. Wow. So why do we buy more than we sell? Who makes those choices? Businesses. But you are blaming the EU.

5. The age old escuse we want to change standards and then don't provide the reasoning. What standards do you want to change and why? It sounds more like you want to remove or lower them - it's the clarion call of neo liberalism.

1. No, i'm not against stronger workers rights where appropriate and i currently employ 140 staff. If our government chooses to change employment laws then i will follow them. What i resent in my specific cases is the EU changing the rules and applying them retrospectively without consideration of the individuals arrangements.
2. I await the presentation of those facts.
3. I'm a manufacturer. I make products out of steel. Its an area of industry that directly affects me and that i have significant knowledge of.
4. Its irrelevant as to why we buy more than we sell. My point is that as a country we are a major consumer and that gives us significant negotiating power with other countries when it comes to trade agreements and as an attractive customer i don't agree that we should have to pay for access to markets that want to sell to us.
5. I have some very specific examples of where the EU has applied standards that have added costs and increased energy usage for no benefit. But unless you are in my specific industry my examples won't mean anything to you.

 

[Lower]

A8 transitional arrangements meant the UK did not have to allow free movement for the new A8 countries (Poland) etc.

that was then.

Currently the UK does not exercise its control of visa overstayers:
Are people who overstay their visa the UK’s biggest immigration problem?
We don’t really know how many people are in the UK without the proper permission. The Home Office doesn’t publish figures on this, so we have to rely on estimates.

The most recent estimate suggests that around 618,000 people could have been living in the UK without permission in 2007. But because this was an estimate, the study thought that in reality it could be anywhere between 417,000 and 863,000people. Of these around 442,000 (72%) were thought to live in London.

If the UK dont exercise its control now, please provide any evidence that leaving the EU will make any difference.

We didn't apply transitional arrangements when the A8 joined because we didn't expect the large influx of people. When it became a problem in terms of pressure on housing, health services, education etc as well as too fast a cultural change the EU wouldn't let us apply a method of limiting it (ie david cameron's attempt to change the immigration rules that was totally rebuffed by the EU).

Visa overstayers is a separate problem to free movement of people.

 

[Notch7]

We didn't apply transitional arrangements when the A8 joined because we didn't expect the large influx of people.

That is not the point, other EU nations applied it.
I disagree that we didn't expect the large influx of people -it was a deliberate policy to feed our economy.

Visa overstayers is a separate problem to free movement of people.

True, I understand that.
However if you are concerned about the number of immigrants, then it makes little sense to not include the 500,000 overstayers.

The UK also does not monitor the EU overstayers, those who arent working.

if you are concerned on the pressure on the health service then perhaps you should be concerned with the 100,000 shortage of NHS workers.
Lets not forget shortage in agriculture, care etc.
If the UK choose a neo liberal policy, they need immigrants to feed it.

I agree that free movement should be looked at, it is a problem for some of the EU countries that have lost a lot of skilled workers.
Leaving the EU is not the solution for that

 

[Notch7]

I want the ability to set our own tarriffs and FTA agreements.

Leaving the EU wont achieve that.

 

[SirGalahad]

1. No, i'm not against stronger workers rights where appropriate and i currently employ 140 staff. If our government chooses to change employment laws then i will follow them. What i resent in my specific cases is the EU changing the rules and applying them retrospectively without consideration of the individuals arrangements.
2. I await the presentation of those facts.
3. I'm a manufacturer. I make products out of steel. Its an area of industry that directly affects me and that i have significant knowledge of.
4. Its irrelevant as to why we buy more than we sell. My point is that as a country we are a major consumer and that gives us significant negotiating power with other countries when it comes to trade agreements and as an attractive customer i don't agree that we should have to pay for access to markets that want to sell to us.
5. I have some very specific examples of where the EU has applied standards that have added costs and increased energy usage for no benefit. But unless you are in my specific industry my examples won't mean anything to you.

1. You mean this judgement. https://www.eversheds-sutherland.co...-ruling-on-holiday-pay-and-voluntary-overtime
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29896617

Which means employers were not calculating the Holiday Wages correctly. So it's not the EU fault.

2. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/richard-bird/immigration-blame-the-uk-_b_13120104.html

https://brexit853.wordpress.com/201...-to-control-eu-freedom-of-movement-directive/

https://brexit853.wordpress.com/201...-to-control-eu-freedom-of-movement-directive/

3 Ok so Steel is important to you, interesting to know.

4.

We were the 2nd highest nett contributor to the EU. We don't have the locked in currency imbalance that benefits Germany and are a nett importer from the EU. We buy more than we sell to the EU. Why should we pay more for that privilege?

So you say its irrelevant why we buy more than we sell but then complain why the Government cannot bail out British Steel. You just contradicted yourself.

So we should be flex our consumpion power in trade deals - that's old hat, we were part of a buying consortium as part of the EU now we will be on our own. Not great logic.

5. That maybe the case - I could bring examples from finance but the thrust of these regulations or standards was primarily in response to market failure where self regulation failed.

 

[fillyboy]

I disagree that we didn't expect the large influx of people -it was a deliberate policy to feed our economy.

One of Tony Blair's aides reported to a newspaper that they expected around 13000 migrants, turned out to be nearer a million, oops.
Yes, we did have a labour and skills shortage, yes we did need some migration, but let's not gloss around the fact that Tony F***** up big time.

 

[noseall]

One of Tony Blair's aides reported to a newspaper that they expected around 13000 migrants, turned out to be nearer a million, oops.
Yes, we did have a labour and skills shortage, yes we did need some migration, but let's not gloss around the fact that Tony F***** up big time.

Tony Blair...Labour blah, blah, blah. Still dredging up that tired old ancient history. Just remind us who has been in power these last NINE years supposedly fixing the Immigration (none) issue boyo. Your beloved Tories couldn't organise booze up in a brewery.

The UK needs immigrant workers Frilly, get used to seeing more dark faces boyo.

 

[fillyboy]

Tony Blair...Labour blah, blah, blah. Still dredging up that tired old ancient history. Just remind us who has been in power these last NINE years supposedly fixing the Immigration (none) issue boyo. Your beloved Tories couldn't organise booze up in a brewery.

The UK needs immigrant workers Frilly, get used to seeing more dark faces boyo.

I did acknowledge that we needed migration, I felt the need to correct Notch on his assertion that it was all planned, it wasn't, boyo. As for getting used to seeing more dark faces, what sort on inflammatory comment is that?, boyo.

 

[Notch7]

One of Tony Blair's aides reported to a newspaper that they expected around 13000 migrants, turned out to be nearer a million, oops.
Yes, we did have a labour and skills shortage, yes we did need some migration, but let's not gloss around the fact that Tony F***** up big time.

No government has controlled immigration, why would they if it drives the economy.

Immigration has been needed to keep the low skill, low investment economy going.
Also the UK csnt supply the skilled workers in sectors like NHS nor can it supply the low skilled workers in agricilture, care, hospitality.

Young working age people are encouraged to this country to help improve working to retired ratio, since we cant fund our pensions.

Leaving the EU doesntbsolve these issues......makes em worse

 

[gasbanni]

That's such a himmy thing to say. Himmy also twisted the meaning of the post too. Nice one.

That's such a himmy thing to say. Himmy also twisted the meaning of the post too. Nice one.

Ah you suspect notch 7 is Himaginn ? Also imamartion wannabediy and walkswithturkeys ......all one and the same ....I posted something similar a couple of weeks back it was deleted......perhaps I was on to something

 

[fillyboy]

No government has controlled immigration, why would they if it drives the economy.

Immigration has been needed to keep the low skill, low investment economy going.
Also the UK csnt supply the skilled workers in sectors like NHS nor can it supply the low skilled workers in agricilture, care, hospitality.

Yes, I acknowledged that, what I disputed is your claim that the Govt of the day were expecting the numbers that arrived, they weren't.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/1-i...ants-wants-to-stay-here-for-good-6586018.html

Young working age people are encouraged to this country to help improve working to retired ratio, since we cant fund our pensions.

I eagerly await a return to final salary pensions.
Speaking of pensions, I chuckled reading about Ghislaine Maxwell and her links to the American pedo bloke, reminded me of her father Robert Maxwell who threw himself off his yacht when news was about to break of him plundering the Mirror Groups pension fund. These days, he'd have got a knighthood.