New Zealand

[transam]

The entire caper is imo a complete
Joke

woman athletes are now having to compete against men athletes in sports were strength and endurance are required

afaik the world governing body of rugby have clamped down on the caper

lunatics have taken over the asylum imo

 

[JohnD]

Are there any transgender athletes who have transitioned, and then transitioned back again?
Are there any transgender people who have transitioned, passed the olympics tests for competing as a woman, then later transitioned back again?

I don't know. It is not relevant.

Do you think that if they did, it would suddenly become fair for women athletes to be denied gold medals because they were outperformed by a stronger, bigger athlete who had developed as a man?

 

[JP_]

Some results
https://www.sporty.co.nz/asset/downloadasset?id=6810f567-df14-4c43-86d5-114d8d76174a

OWNZ Junior Records (men)
(as at 17th May 2010)
105+kg
Snatch 135 Gavin Hubbard
Clean & Jerk 170 Gavin Hubbard


"As Gavin Hubbard, the 39-year-old was a national junior record-holder in the male 105kg class before she transitioned into a woman in her mid-30s.
Rival athletes complained that she had an unfair advantage after she won gold at the Australian Open this year, lifting 123 kilos in the snatch and 145 kilos in the clean and jerk."
24 Nov, 2017 https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/co...on-laurel-hubbard/SSVVOBB6V2KPDZMP5IIBGI4NXA/

 

[JP_]

Until such times as some classification exists, I prefer to see inclusion rather than exclusion.

But most female athletes would prefer previously male competitors to be excluded from their sport.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I don't know. It is not relevant.

It is relevant if they have to surrender their medals, and relinquish their titles.

 

[JohnD]

It is relevant if they have to surrender their medals, and relinquish their titles.

it is of no relevance to the women who have been denied the chance to win gold medals becase they have been outperformed by competitors who developed as men.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

woman athletes are now having to compete against men athletes in sports were strength and endurance are required

What sports?

afaik the world governing body of rugby have clamped down on the caper

What caper? Men and women competing in the same sport?

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

it is of no relevance to the women who have been denied the chance to win gold medals becase they have been outperformed by competitors who developed as men.

It is if the surrendered medals and relinquished titles are awarded to the rightful owners.
I think it's accurate to say that transgender athletes transitioning to females do so with no chance or intention of reversing that transition.

 

[transam]

What about male boxers self identifying as woman

taking part in woman’s boxing

Mixed doubles in tennis

there is good money to be made in that sport so why not have 2 blokes one of whom. Self identified as a woman

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

But most female athletes would prefer previously male competitors to be excluded from their sport.

Hmm, one could as easily say that some athletes would prefer their closest competitor to be excluded.
It's a little unfair to allow the decision of who competes and who doesn't to be that of the other competitors. For sure hear their arguments, but don't allow them to make the decision.

 

[JohnD]

transitioning

tell us what you think "transitioning" means.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

What about male boxers self identifying as woman

taking part in woman’s boxing

Mixed doubles in tennis

there is good money to be made in that sport so why not have 2 blokes one of whom. Self identified as a woman

It isn't merely about self identification. There are tests to be passed.
Gender isn't binary. It's only classed like that in societies.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

tell us what you think "transitioning" means.

It's worthy of its own thread. It's not really relevant what each of us understand it to be. The test is laid down by the olympic committee. I'm sure they discussed it for a good while, and took expert advice. If we disagree with their understanding, or with each others, it's not relevant.
And no, I don't intend to get into it, here.

 

[JP_]

It isn't merely about self identification. There are tests to be passed.

Completely irrelevant for the reasons already given.

An Olympic weightlifter is not made overnight. It takes years, maybe a decade, of training to reach your peak. Men and women peak at around 26 and 25 years respectively.

So, Gavin Hubbard trained as a male weightlifter from puberty until he peaked. He was junior champion. He then transitioned, after his peak.

Explain how that is sporting.

 

[JP_]

I'm sure they discussed it for a good while, and took expert advice.

What, like Brexit?

They did. But it doesn't mean their decision was fair for female athletes.

“There is no hiding from it, there is a real tension between fairness, inclusivity and protecting women’s sport.”
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1091417/ioc-guidelines-transgender-tokyo-2020