New Zealand

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

That is not answering the question.

I am not asking the Olympic committee, I am asking you.

Yes or No? That is all you need to answer. I already know what the Olympic Committee decided - that is why we are having this discussion.

I understand the binary choice the committee are faced with, and I support their decision on this occasion. The athlete clearly has not simply transitioned to gain a competitive advantage. It's been a life-long struggle for her.

 

[JP_]

I understand the binary choice the committee are faced with, and I support their decision on this occasion. The athlete clearly has not simply transitioned to gain a competitive advantage. It's been a life-long struggle for her.

Wonderful, so glad you support the committee's decision, which is purely based on current gender identity. Yes

Right, now answer the question. As already said, I know what the committee decided.

Just say it. Maybe the reason you can't is because you know it is wrong?

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

The Junior New Zealand National Weightlifting Champion, may have been handicapped?

You do understand the role of testosterone in muscle growth, don't you?

You're adopting JohnD's condescending attitude. There's no reason for it.
I did say 'may have been'. It wasn't a definite nor absolute assertion. It was a possibility to be considered.
She may have had a low testosterone count.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Wonderful, so glad you support the committee's decision, which is purely based on current gender identity. Yes

Right, now answer the question. As already said, I know what the committee decided.

Just say it. Maybe the reason you can't is because you know it is wrong?

Exactly, It's based on current gender identity.
I said a long time ago, I support inclusivity, not exclusivity. It isn't about what is right or what is wrong. It's about inclusivity. If sport can't be inclusive, what can?
Sometimes what is right may not be good, and what is wrong may not be bad.
In this issue the restricted choices require a binary decision.
In an ideal world, there wouldn't be a restricted choice.

Apparently, she's not really a medal contender anyway.

 

[JP_]

I understand that, but rather than speculate her low testosterone count, why not answer the question, which is not specific to this one competitor, but applies to all athletes in all competitions, not just the Olympics?

This is a binary question, it requires a Yes, or a No.

Should somebody that has had the genetic and hormonal advantages of being a man during their formative athletic years be allowed to compete as a woman, knowing that they have a biological advantage resulting from the years, or sometimes decades, of being a man?

I'll go first:

No.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I understand that, but rather than speculate her low testosterone count, why not answer the question, which is not specific to this one competitor, but applies to all athletes in all competitions, not just the Olympics?

I have restricted my comments to the issue raised in the OP.
Sometimes there isn't a one size fits all. This may be one of them.

This is a binary question, it requires a Yes, or a No.
Should somebody that has had the genetic and hormonal advantages of being a man during their formative athletic years be allowed to compete as a woman, knowing that they have a biological advantage resulting from the years, or sometimes decades, of being a man?
I'll go first:
No.

There isn't a one size fits all.
Each case must be judged on its own merits. As is the current situation. Not all transgender athletes have an automatic right to compete in the competition of their choice.

 

[JP_]

Apparently, she's not really a medal contender anyway.

Oceania Championships 2017 - Gold
Oceania Championships 2019 - Gold

World Championships 2019 - 6th
World Championships 2017 - Silver

Pacific Games 2019 - Gold

World Masters Games 2017 - Gold

5 golds and a silver from the last few years.

But even if she does lose, she just prevented another women, who has always been a woman, from achieving her dream of attending the Olympic Games.

 

[JP_]

There isn't a one size fits all.

Wrong answer. Try again.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Wrong answer. Try again.

It's not the wrong answer. It's just not the answer that you want.
There isn't a one size fits all. Each case must be considered on its own merits.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Oceania Championships 2017 - Gold
Oceania Championships 2019 - Gold

World Championships 2019 - 6th
World Championships 2017 - Silver

Pacific Games 2019 - Gold

World Masters Games 2017 - Gold

5 golds and a silver from the last few years.

But even if she does lose, she just prevented another women, who has always been a woman, from achieving her dream of attending the Olympic Games.

I was referring to the coming competition, not the past competitions.
She is not considered a medal contender.

You said that she was the only athlete in her class. How can she deprive someone of a place, if she's the only athlete in her class. There is no 'someone else'.

Not just like the rest of them ...

1. Hubbard is in the highest weight category for women, there are not many other woman (when I last looked) in that category

 

[JohnD]

She is not considered a medal contender.

You said that she was the only athlete in her class. How can she deprive someone of a place, if she's the only athlete in her class. There is no 'someone else'.

​

so you are happy to establish the principle that a biological male can take a place that should rightfully go to a female athlete.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

so you are happy to establish the principle that a biological male can take a place that should rightfully go to a female athlete.

There's been no evidence presented that she is a biological male. There have been tests performed to establish that she is female.
Sex isn't binary. We have no idea what her anatomy is as far as sex is concerned.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Around seven of the school’s 778 pupils identify at non-binary, which means they don’t feel comfortable being referred to as male or female.​

Maybe should not be at a girls' school, then.

Is 7 out of 778 what they call democracy?

 

[JP_]

Each case must be considered on its own merits.

No, that is not what the question is asking. The merits of the question is a man, who has trained as a man, competed as a man, gained all the advantages of being a man, then competing as a woman. That is the question. I didn't ask about some other scenario that has not been discussed.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Maybe should not be at a girls' school, then.

Is 7 out of 778 what they call democracy?

It was a decision supported by all the pupils, as far as I can deduce.
Maybe you could search for an antagonist among the pupils.