Solder or compression fitting on mains stop cock?

[benjiman]

Hi all,

Have got a seized stop cock which needs swapping out.

Main stop cock also seized and access is a problem for utility company so they will take a long time to do the job.

I can pre fabricate the stop cock with copper and 22mm JG pushfit elbow..cut pipe live and quickly push it and then isolate the new stop cock once done.

Other option is pipe freezing then same as above but use solder fittings.

Option 1 will be quicker but more messy. Option 2 if the pipe freeze fails it could get even messier but if it works then solid job.

Is push fit a valid option or should it always be soldered?

 

[oldbuffer]

1. You can't solder within (a minimum of) 18 inches / 450 mm of the point where a pipe is frozen. if you do, there is a high risk of the ice plug melting.
2. If you have the necessary clearance, and are sufficiently practiced to be able to solder it right first time and fast, then solder would be the way to go.
3. Sounds as if you could go the Speedfit route, and perhaps change to soldered when the utility company has got the main stop cock operational. Indeed, if you stick to a good brand like Speedfit or Hep2O, you could leave it.
4. Whatever you do make sure the pipe you are joining to:
4a. Is metric, and not an old Imperial size.
4b. Is scrupulously clean, and without deep scratches if going for push fit.

 

[benjiman]

1. You can't solder within (a minimum of) 18 inches / 450 mm of the point where a pipe is frozen. if you do, there is a high risk of the ice plug melting.
2. If you have the necessary clearance, and are sufficiently practiced to be able to solder it right first time and fast, then solder would be the way to go.
3. Sounds as if you could go the Speedfit route, and perhaps change to soldered when the utility company has got the main stop cock operational. Indeed, if you stick to a good brand like Speedfit or Hep2O, you could leave it.
4. Whatever you do make sure the pipe you are joining to:
4a. Is metric, and not an old Imperial size.
4b. Is scrupulously clean, and without deep scratches if going for push fit.

Thanks, great breakdown!

 

[Elkato531]

And don't forget to video it. If it goes tits up you can always get a few quid from You've Been Framed.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I would Freeze it, but look at using a Compression fitting rather than Speedfit/Hep2O. Have a 3/4" Olive handy, then in the worst case scenario you can make the joint, as Oldbuffer has mentioned above, if it's 3/4" pipe, the JG/Hep fittings will be useless. You've then got a race against the clock before the ice plug melts.

 

[CBW]

I would also go for the freeze kit, but, be weary of using a freeze kit in this weather

 

[JimCrow]

 

[benjiman]

Thanks all!

Is it hard to distinguish between 22mm copper and 3/4"?

What is this older pipe made out of?

 

[CBW]

Is it hard to distinguish between 22mm copper and 3/4"?

It can be, but on a fitting such as the stopcock, have a look, there could be markings on it to suggest a size, if it’s compression, then sometimes there’s writing on the nut, which indicates the size.

What is this older pipe made out of?

Without a photo hard for us to say, but generally copper. What colour is it?

 

[benjiman]

It can be, but on a fitting such as the stopcock, have a look, there could be markings on it to suggest a size, if it’s compression, then sometimes there’s writing on it which indicates the size.


Without a photo hard for us to say, but generally copper. What colour is it?

Ive scrapped back the paint and cleaned it and its defo copper. What is best way to measure to confirm its 22 or 3/4?

 

[oldbuffer]

1. The only way to be certain is to clean it and measure the diameter.
2. The easiest way is with a vernier caliper, which gives a direct measurement. However, not something everyone has.
3. With only a ruler / tape measure, the most accurate way is to:
3a. Get a strip of paper with one straight edge and another at right angles to it. Fold a piece of A4 paper half and half again on the long edge for example.
3b. Wrap the strip around the pipe with the very slightest overlap.
3c. Draw a pen or pencil line parallel with the pipe to touch both parts of the overlap.
3d. Measure the distance between the lines, call it "X" mm
3e. Divide X by 3.1416 to get the diameter in mm.
3f. If the diameter is 22 plus or minus 0.1 mm, then its 22 mm pipe
3g. If the diameter is smaller than 21.9 mm, its almost certainly imperial 3/4 copper.

 

[benjiman]

1. The only way to be certain is to clean it and measure the diameter.
2. The easiest way is with a vernier caliper, which gives a direct measurement. However, not something everyone has.
3. With only a ruler / tape measure, the most accurate way is to:
3a. Get a strip of paper with one straight edge and another at right angles to it. Fold a piece of A4 paper half and half again on the long edge for example.
3b. Wrap the strip around the pipe with the very slightest overlap.
3c. Draw a pen or pencil line parallel with the pipe to touch both parts of the overlap.
3d. Measure the distance between the lines, call it "X" mm
3e. Divide X by 3.1416 to get the diameter in mm.
3f. If the diameter is 22 plus or minus 0.1 mm, then its 22 mm pipe
3g. If the diameter is smaller than 21.9 mm, its almost certainly imperial 3/4 copper.

Excellent! Thanks, I'll give this a go.

 

[ianmcd]

I for one wouldnt dream of snatching it and using a speedfit fitting, nor would I freeze and solder , unless the point of freezing was a long way from the fitting you are going to solder, freeze and compression is the only way I would go and as already advised have a green ring/ imperial olive ready just in case, but as someone said already please video it, this could be fun

 

[benjiman]

1. The only way to be certain is to clean it and measure the diameter.
2. The easiest way is with a vernier caliper, which gives a direct measurement. However, not something everyone has.
3. With only a ruler / tape measure, the most accurate way is to:
3a. Get a strip of paper with one straight edge and another at right angles to it. Fold a piece of A4 paper half and half again on the long edge for example.
3b. Wrap the strip around the pipe with the very slightest overlap.
3c. Draw a pen or pencil line parallel with the pipe to touch both parts of the overlap.
3d. Measure the distance between the lines, call it "X" mm
3e. Divide X by 3.1416 to get the diameter in mm.
3f. If the diameter is 22 plus or minus 0.1 mm, then its 22 mm pipe
3g. If the diameter is smaller than 21.9 mm, its almost certainly imperial 3/4 copper.

Ok, so I measured a standard 22mm pipe and got 70mm which gives 22.28.

Measured the incoming mains and got 66mm! Which gives 21!

Looking at the pipe you'd think its a standard 22mm!. So glad I asked and you replied as if I had cut it the pushfit wouldnt have worked and with no way to isolate i'd be truely screwed!!

So next question, if i got for the freeze option, can i use a standard 22mm solder fitting? The 3/4" pipe will take the fitting, be slightly looser, but im thinking the solder can fill out and create a good joint?

 

[benjiman]

I for one wouldnt dream of snatching it and using a speedfit fitting, nor would I freeze and solder , unless the point of freezing was a long way from the fitting you are going to solder, freeze and compression is the only way I would go and as already advised have a green ring/ imperial olive ready just in case, but as someone said already please video it, this could be fun

I can freeze 500mm away from the solder point. Ill rope my wife in to do the recording!