Online boiler providers - good option or spawn of the devil?

[MJN]

I am currently weighing up replacement boiler options, not just regarding the choice of boiler itself but who/how to get the installation work done too.

I happened to stumble across the likes of Heatable and Boxt (are there others in this market too?) who seem to be offering what they describe as a 'hassle free' approach to obtaining a fixed quote for a replacement boiler based on your stated needs/circumstances, the price of which includes the boiler, whatever flue kit/extras are required, chemical flush, magnetic filter and 'reasonable' installation extras such as new/modified pipework etc that might be required. Almost like the boiler equivalent of car supermarkets that have a no-haggling policy - what you see is what you get sort of thing, which I must admit appeals to me. Next-day, or at least next several day, installation seems par for the course too - I guess given the pool of subscontractors that they have access to.

I was thinking there must be a downside but I haven't spotted it yet. Some forum discussions (elsewhere) seem really positive about them and their Trustpilot scores/reviews are top notch at pretty much 5/5 across many thousands of reviews which isn't something you see very often. The prices seem reasonable too e.g. a WB Greenstar 18kW for £2250 all-in, although my definition of 'reasonable' isn't based on market knowledge but rather affordability so perhaps you might tell me that sounds a lot!

It is beginning to feel preferable to attempting to get a few quotes from multiple engineers, some who might not respond or turn up when agreed, others perhaps being too busy to fit me in and also the uncomfortable feeling I have with the fact that all bar one I would not be proceeding with which I don't like given the effort they've made in quoting.

What aspects with these online offerings am I overlooking?

 

[ianmcd]

Totally up to you who you use, but these sites use the puddle drinkers of the industry, cheapest they can get, they nail the boiler to the wall and run, if you are just interested in a cheap job badly done then fill your boots there are many of these cowboy companies going

 

[MJN]

I wish you'd say what you really think @ianmcd. Such mixed messages!

Joking aside, that sounds pretty damning! I wonder why the reviews seem so positive, and unanimously so? Perhaps too early for problems to manifest themselves at the point of review, or maybe ignorance on the part of the customer about what a good boiler swap looks like?

Needless to say, no - I'm not interested in a cheap job done badly but then neither am I wanting an expensive job done badly. If I've learnt one thing it is that there isn't necessarily a correlation between price and quality - indeed some of the best tradesmen I've used have actually been quite cheap, it's just how to separate the wheat from the chaff as with varying expectations I can only put so much trust in word of mouth. What I think was a good job and value for money might be someone else's shocker!

Anyone else with similar (or indeed contradictory) knowledge/experience of these places?

 

[bernardgreen]

Ianmcd is correct

I wonder why the reviews seem so positive

maybe because the people writing the positive reviews to not have the ability to judge the quality and reliability of the system. Also the site may suppress negative reviews.

 

[ianmcd]

If fitting a modern boiler to an existing system, the absolute most important thing is pipe sizing and water system quality, any one that can install and flush any boiler in half a day is not doing the job correctly, the flush must be done correctly, adding a magnetic filter is not a flush, have never seen any of these companies do a correct flush, then you have a lovely warranty, make a claim and along comes manu, sorry not flushed not fixing it

 

[MJN]

maybe because the people writing the positive reviews to not have the ability to judge the quality and reliability of the system.

Yes, I'm definitely wondering that.

Also the site may suppress negative reviews.

I've found with Trustpilot it is pretty robust to that sort of thing. Where takedown challenges are presented there's a transparent process to proving ligitimacy of custom through provision of order numbers etc. I've had it myself when a retailer objected to my review and it wasn't difficult to get the objection overruled. Besides which, I see many a company getting a right slating on there despite them being present to respond - couriers are a good example who seem to really get it tough - and so I am fairly confident that the 'truth' can come out when it needs to.

 

[MJN]

have never seen any of these companies do a correct flush, then you have a lovely warranty, make a claim and along comes manu, sorry not flushed not fixing it

Could get interesting with Boxt as I see that is it Worcester Bosch who is behind it (albeit as a minority stakeholder, but I suspect that's enough to not let them off the hook that easily).

Thanks both, really useful light (or perhaps dark!) being cast over them that I'll factor in to further consideration.

 

[Exedon]

In all my years of long and sometimes bitter experience I've see the grand total of one instal done by national company's I would put my name to.
Why believe a review on a site that's basically a company advertising themselves?
Ask around locally get 3 quotes from independent contractors don't be put off if they have no website ect.
Until recently when I started slowing down ready to retire I ran a team of 12 never had a website or indeed even advertise for over 30 years personal recommendation only.

 

[Junglejames]

Was recommended to me on here, albeit not got round to trying it yet.

But seems the right thread:

https://www.theheatinghub.co.uk/

 

[MJN]

https://www.theheatinghub.co.uk/

Yes, I'd stumbled across them too (Edit: Via your thread actually - thanks!). Seems a useful service but I don't think it'd be right for me as I like to spend time doing my own research - as much for interest's sake as well as achieving a particular outcome - and thanks to the Internet I am not sure I'd get much of a return on the £120 that I couldn't achieve elsewhere. Definitely not knocking it though - I'm probably not their target market.

 

[sxturbo]

What do you want, a like for like swap, or do you want to go for a high modulating boiler with opentherm controls and weather compensation?

There are many many brands, to choose from but few actually do opentherm well.

 

[muggles]

If you want a decent install then either use The Heating Hub as previously suggested, or https://www.heatgeek.com/find-a-heat-geek/

 

[MJN]

What do you want, a like for like swap, or do you want to go for a high modulating boiler with opentherm controls and weather compensation?

There are many many brands, to choose from but few actually do opentherm well.

Good question, and one that I feel a bit conflicted about to be honest.

At present we've got an Ideal Icos HE15 which, whilst basic, works well and despite daily use hasn't ever skipped a beat or required repair. But it is 14 years old and I wonder how long I can realistically expect it to last. In the spring I will start renovating the room it's in, our 'ex'-kitchen, and will be removing the ceiling during this which will in turn give me full access to all the wiring and pipework to the unvented cylinder so I figured now might be a good time to consider replacing the boiler rather than waiting until it reaches retirement age, particularly if wider system changes might be required.

But, as to your question, what with? I've always been into the idea of Opentherm but have been very disappointed that it hasn't become the ubiquitous standard that I'd hoped would be the case, particularly because I am not keen on vendor lock-in on the controls side of things. I am currently using a Honeywell T6 with a home-grown geofencing and whilst its TPI control is great (had a CM927 for many years previous and it too was excellent at stable temperature control) I'd like to use its Opentherm functionality to give a proportional demand signal. I was being drawn towards an Intergas HRE SB18 on the advice from some on here and elsewhere about its Opentherm compatibility and use in an X-plan configuration (currently got S-plan) and separate HW/DHW temperatures, however I am not overly impressed with its 6.1-18.2kW output range as we've got around 9kW of total radiator output (notwithstanding the 19kw HW cylinder coil) and only need a fraction of that most of the time and so would ideally like a much lower minimum. That, and the fact that I might have limited choice of people to fit and maintain it, is tempting me to consider if I should drop my Opentherm aspirations and just go for something a bit more 'mainstream' that is widely understood, universally supported etc and has a lower minimum output. Picking one at random as I haven't done much research yet, maybe something like a WB Greenstar 4000-Series system whose 15kW offering has a much more impressive (to me) 2.0-15.2kW output. Not sure if it supports weather compensation, or if it does whether it is only in conjunction with WB controls which I'd rather not have to have, but such functionality would be of interest if it complemented things.

So, to summarise, I don't want a like-for-like swap but other than that I don't actually know what I *do* want as I am struggling to weigh up the pros and cons of each aspect of consideration given that none of them are quantifiable in any meaningful way. I guess I want it all!

 

[MJN]

If you want a decent install then either use The Heating Hub as previously suggested, or https://www.heatgeek.com/find-a-heat-geek/

Thanks for that @muggles. I am familiar with heatgeek's knowledgebase but didn't realise they did accreditation. There's a listed installer not too far from me too.

 

[muggles]

Have a look at the Intergas Xclusive 24. Better modulation than the SB18 and a longer warranty at 12 years. OpenTherm compatible and will do priority hot water, which should be a feature in any modern domestic system. Anyone can fit them and maintain them - they are far and away the simplest boiler on the market to work on. If your installer can't work out how to install and maintain an Intergas, they should take up a different career.

The WB 4000 looks good on paper, and can also do hot water priority, but if you want proper modulating controls for it you're tied to WB's own ones as it's not OpenTherm compatible. If I was to hold my nose and fit a WB though, it would probably be this one.