Dover...
- Thread starter ellal
- Start date
You are unfortunately part of Cummings gaming strategy: frame anybody as an enemy of brexit, then unite brexers against a common enemy.
Its a shame, but it is going to be almost impossible to have a reasoned debate with you because your beliefs in Brexit are built on emotions not on evidence.
He isn't the only one. Trump, Boris. Farage. It's an attempt to appear to be a popularist which is how they work. That's pretty simple really in their case. People have beefs about various things, group them together and say they will be fixed when they wont / blame something that isn't really responsible for them what ever they were. Eg Hitler and Jews etc. A rather extreme example.
Find another poll then. Until you do that's the best evidence we have, stop whining because it doesn't suit your assumptions.
Of course they're worried about the full implications, but they're presumably more worried about the full implications of a hard Border in Ireland and the inevitable reaction by the EU to us rejecting the Brexit agreement
You're taking the argument to the extreme which makes it nonsense.
Brexit was never about shutting ourselves off from the world or from the EU. Brexit was never going to result in us having control of people entering other countries and this case we we chose to allow French border officials to operate within our borders. However, that doesn't remove the liability of the delay from the French border control staff, or lack of.
There is always an alternative, and i don't think the DUP voted for the withdrawal agreement.
The no alternative line is what the EU say, not reality.
We were told clearly and repeatedly that this would not happen.
I am most certainly not taking the argument to extremes
Weve had 6 years of this false argument that:
brexit will "get back control"
brexit will "get back sovereignty"
brexit will "get back self determination"
its all completely false, because unless we want the UK to be isolationist, we have to agree compromises with the rest of the world, especially the EU
by the way brexit hasnt got control of people or goods entering this country.
And I should add, Brexit liars like Jacob Rees Mogg stated explicitly that delays and queues would only happen on the Calais side not Dover
oh come on, you are a businessman -you understand the reality
There are no alternatives
NI and GB are in different regulatory jurisdictions -that means a customs border. WTO concur
This would have happened whether or not we were still in the EU. There have always been passport checks at Dover, and if the one side doesn't put on enough staff to cope with the load, there will be delays.
There was never a need to stamp passports. So no, this wouldn't have happened if we still had freedom of movement. Some delays undoubtedly but not an average of between 6 and 11 hours.
By the way, no one has suggested that the booths were undermanned on Saturday, how well did that go again?
There are alternatives, and i predict that in the next couple of years there will be substantial changes to the protocol.
The EU are playing hardball at the moment and claiming there are no alternatives, but there are and things will change.
I’ve been through places where they just look at your passport or put it in a machine. I’ve also been through places where they look at your passport or put it through a machine and then stamp it. The latter always seems to take just two seconds longer. I can’t see that stamping a passport once you’ve inspected it can account for major delay's. Try it. Open a book, inspect the page and just before you close the book, thump your fist on the table and then thump the open page. See!
As far as I can remember in 'normal' times, at the start of most school breaks (but the summer break in particular), there’s always been motorway traffic jams as well as port and airport queues and delays. Add in the fact that not many people have been abroad for the last couple of years and a few lazy frogs with 'Le 'ump' turning up late for work and there was always going to be an increase in delays for travellers at the ports at the start of this summer break. It happens with holidays at peak times the same as it happens on the roads every morning and every evening. It’s called the rush hour. We should be used to it by now.
It will change and for the worse. When Biometric checks are required for passports then it's all going to get much worse. Currently that's forecast for September.
New biometric checks at EU border in Dover will cause 'miles of traffic jams' | ITV News
There are already queues of lorries outside the Port of Dover. The port's boss and MPs explained to Joel Hills why the queues are about to get longer. | ITV National News
www.itv.com
