Liz Truss Said

[carmanmemoranda]

The average train drivers salary is not £60000, but don't let facts get in the way of a rant

Yes it's still a good salary, but there's a lot of jobs paying that sort of money. Take into account the training, the levels of responsibility, the hours, and then it doesn't look that good. Certainly not for a family man/woman who wants to be around their children

 

[motorbiking]

Average Train Driver Salaries Per Year
	2020	2022
	Great Western Railway	£56,773	£60,620
	Southeastern Railway	£53,620	£57,030
	London Underground	£55,711	£59,732
	Arriva Group	£60,945	£66,677
	London Midland	£54,040	£55,854
	Virgin Trains	£66,231	£74,151

 

[carmanmemoranda]

So the average is ?

 

[RonnyRaygun]

Ask Thatcher ?

It was hailed as 1 of her sucess'.

But I wouldn't want to go back to opening them up. Time has moved on.

I don't think the closure of the mines was the issue per se. Who wouldn't pay for a cheaper product from elsewhere if it does the job equally as well as what can be produced in this country?

The bigger issue was the fact that the mines were closed with very little consideration to the negative effects that the closures would have on mining communities throughout the country. Men who had worked down the mines for their entire working lives were suddenly out of a job with no qualifications or skills to do anything else. What support did Thatcher provide to those communities? Any subsidies to manufacturers to open factories in those locations where there would be an oversupply of labour? Any free or subsidised training for former mine workers? Any incentives or advice for former workers to start their own businesses?

What actually happened was thousands of people suddenly on the dole at huge expense to the tax payer. This cost most likely wiped out any saving by purchasing cheap coal from abroad.

 

[Notch7]

Train drivers are paid the salary because of collective bargaining. In a supply and demand model a job pays the amount necessary to get the right skill and experience. if we paid people according to the criticality of the work - Social media consultants would be on minimum wage and nurses in the 50% tax bracket.

this country has appalling wealth distribution

we should have collective wage bargaining

its not right that during the 10 years of austerity the top earners massively increased income and wealth whilst the poorest suffered stagnation

its odd how you as a lawyer moans about what train drivers earn.

 

[Odds]

I don't think the closure of the mines was the issue per se. Who wouldn't pay for a cheaper product from elsewhere if it does the job equally as well as what can be produced in this country?

The bigger issue was the fact that the mines were closed with very little consideration to the negative effects that the closures would have on mining communities throughout the country. Men who had worked down the mines for their entire working lives were suddenly out of a job with no qualifications or skills to do anything else. What support did Thatcher provide to those communities? Any subsidies to manufacturers to open factories in those locations where there would be an oversupply of labour? Any free or subsidised training for former mine workers? Any incentives or advice for former workers to start their own businesses?

What actually happened was thousands of people suddenly on the dole at huge expense to the tax payer. This cost most likely wiped out any saving by purchasing cheap coal from abroad.

The closure of mines was as much a political point as an economic necessity: Thatcher was determined to impose government power over the unions after the disastrous years in the 70s. No way would they be allowed to dictate terms anymore. Their pay rises of '72 forced the economy into an inflationary spiral that forced Wilson to go cap-in-hand to the IMF in '76 and two years later brought on the infamous Winter of Discontent. We've seen a shadow of that dark time in Edinburgh this year where rubbish piled up in the streets, and Tories must not allow such to happen on their own doorsteps.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

So the average is ?

Well, the average per selected companies above is £62344.

But we'd need more information to work out the average per driver (number of drivers per franchise), so the average per driver could be more or less than the £62344 above.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

this country has appalling wealth distribution

we should have collective wage bargaining

its not right that during the 10 years of austerity the top earners massively increased income and wealth whilst the poorest suffered stagnation

its odd how you as a lawyer moans about what train drivers earn.

And nurses have been getting 1% pay rises for practically that entire time, so in real terms their salaries are now massively lower than they were in 2010. And people wonder why British people don't want to spend three years at University and rack up a whole load of debt to become a nurse.

 

[wellyfish]

I don't think the closure of the mines was the issue per se. Who wouldn't pay for a cheaper product from elsewhere if it does the job equally as well as what can be produced in this country?

The bigger issue was the fact that the mines were closed with very little consideration to the negative effects that the closures would have on mining communities throughout the country. Men who had worked down the mines for their entire working lives were suddenly out of a job with no qualifications or skills to do anything else. What support did Thatcher provide to those communities? Any subsidies to manufacturers to open factories in those locations where there would be an oversupply of labour? Any free or subsidised training for former mine workers? Any incentives or advice for former workers to start their own businesses?

What actually happened was thousands of people suddenly on the dole at huge expense to the tax payer. This cost most likely wiped out any saving by purchasing cheap coal from abroad.

THe closure of the mines was a political decision to discipline the workforce, nothing at all to do with the price of imported coal.

Check the 'Nationalised Industries Policy Group' report aka the Ridley Report from 8th July 1977.

 

[Pat ex]

THe closure of the mines was a political decision to discipline the workforce, nothing at all to do with the price of imported coal.

Check the 'Nationalised Industries Policy Group' report aka the Ridley Report from 8th July 1977.

In my opinion it is was a planned attack on unions in general.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Well, the average per selected companies above is £62344.

But we'd need more information to work out the average per driver (number of drivers per franchise), so the average per driver could be more or less than the £62344 above.

It also needs to be made clear how much of the figures quoted are basic salary or overtime too !

 

[wellyfish]

The closure of mines was as much a political point as an economic necessity: Thatcher was determined to impose government power over the unions after the disastrous years in the 70s. No way would they be allowed to dictate terms anymore. Their pay rises of '72 forced the economy into an inflationary spiral that forced Wilson to go cap-in-hand to the IMF in '76 and two years later brought on the infamous Winter of Discontent. We've seen a shadow of that dark time in Edinburgh this year where rubbish piled up in the streets, and Tories must not allow such to happen on their own doorsteps.

It was purely political, as you say Thatcher vowed to show the workers who was boss.

The inflationary cycle of the 70's was largely due to the oil crises in that decade, very little to do with miners wages.

Wilson wasn't the PM responsible for the IMF debacle, Callaghan was PM at the time.

The govt at the time was beginning to be gripped by the monetarists groupthink - Peter Jay, Callaghan's son-in-law and speech writer was fully signed up to it.

Why they went to the IMF cannot be understood in any rational way, it's almost as though they didn't know they had control of their own currency.

Govt never used the loan and Thatcher paid it all back on her first day in office.

 

[wellyfish]

In my opinion it is was a planned attack on unions in general.

Yes, it was to discipline the workforce. Your opinion is backed up by the facts which are readily available in the report I referenced.

 

[ajohn]

THe closure of the mines was a political decision to discipline the workforce, nothing at all to do with the price of imported coal.

A mix from an actual valley's miner. Better quality coal from china could appear at the docks at a lower cost than we could get it to the pit head. China had a huge open cast mine. There is also a big one in the USA
Bingham Canyon mine located south-west of Salt Lake City, Utah, US, is the deepest open pit mine in the world. The Bingham Canyon pit is more than 1.2km deep and approximately four kilometres wide. The mine, which is owned and operated by Rio Tinto Kennecott, has been in production since 1906

Pit head costs vary according to the mine as can the coal. That is why for instance a new one was opened. it wasn't all that far from where I used to live. Outskirts of B'ham. Protests etc but it went ahead and as promised it wasn't easy to notice it was even there.

Closure costs - largely covered by Mrs T revenue gained from sources other than tax.

Coal now for power is as far as I known phased out. I did pass one from time to time not all that long ago on the way to Yorkshire from B'ham.

The valleys and from the same miner. Businesses encourage to come in via incentives. When those go the business tend to go too.

 

[algas]

Don't worry our new Health secretary will sort that out.....

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Just don't get in her way to the pie shop|