Responsibility of electrical intake equipment in flats

[JohnW2]

It is still voluntary, no company is insisting that you must have a SM, even if some are saying to get certain tariffs, then you must have a SM. You still have the option, not to take the tariff.

I think there may have been some misunderstanding about what I've been saying.

What you say above is, as far as I am aware, currently true. Government certainly has not introduced any 'compulsion' and, again as far as I am aware, no supplier is currently forcing any consumer to have a 'smart' meter.

My point has been that, even in the absence of any government-imposed compulsion, some (maybe all) suppliers probably have a contractual right to 'force' SMs onto anyone who wants to use their electricity supply, if/when they wished (not yet) to exercise that right. Just as they currently do not offer particular tariffs to customers without SMs, so they could presumably not offer ANY tariff those those without SMs.

Just as, as a final resort, they will cut off the supply from someone defaulting on their contractual obligation to pay for the electricity they use, so they probably could do the same with customers defaulting on their contractual obligation to allow the supplier to install "any metering equipment".

As above, it hasn't happened yet (hasn't yet needed to happen), since suppliers have, in general, been finding enough customers prepared to have SMs to enable them to meet the government targets and hence avoid financial penalties. However, that could well eventually change, when they have installed SMs for most of the 'agreeable' customers.

I suppose the bottom line of what I'm suggesting is that although it is currently possible to 'put off' having a 'smart' meter, the time will probably eventually come when having such a meter becomes essentially unavoidable.

 

[SUNRAY]

Eh? I find that hard to believe.. It is surely the case that anyone is free to enter into any contract with anyone, if they are happy to accept the terms and conditions of that contract - and (other than in fairly extreme {'unreasonable'{ circumstances) I don't think any 'authorities' are able to dictate what is and is not agreed between the parties in such a contract?

We are all agreed that the government has not, and probably never will, attempt to force consumers to have a 'smart' meter, but I don't think (may be wrong!) that they have the ability to force a supplier to provide an electricity supply to someone not prepared to comply with the requirements of the supplier's contract.

You are not making much sense.

Slightly convoluted but if you care to read Johns comment again and bother to understand the words used, then it does make perfect sense.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Slightly convoluted but if you care to read Johns comment again and bother to understand the words used, then it does make perfect sense.

Perhaps in isolation but not in relation to his previous convolutions on the matter.

Either smart meters are compulsory in the U.K. or they are not.

 

[JohnW2]

Either smart meters are compulsory in the U.K. or they are not.

I thought I had been fairly clear - it's not quite as simple as you suggest.

'Smart' meters are not 'compulsory' in law (or by government directive/edict).

However, if a customer enters into a contract with a supplier whereby the supplier agrees to provide an electricity supply provided that the customer complies with the agreed obligations in that contract, if one of those 'agreed obligations' is to allow the supplier to install "any metering equipment", then if the customer breaches the contract by refusing to allow the supplier to install the equipment which they wish to install, then the supplier could presumably discontinue the supply (just as they could if the customer breached the contract by not paying for electricity used)

 

[Murdochcat]

Perhaps in isolation but not in relation to his previous convolutions on the matter.

Either smart meters are compulsory in the U.K. or they are not.

They may not be compulsory BUT the suppliers have targets to install them - but no targets to ensure they keep working

 

[JohnW2]

They may not be compulsory BUT the suppliers have targets to install them ...

Exactly. As I've just written, once the suppliers have installed SMs for the majority of 'willing' customers, they may have to consider exercising their contractual right to more-or-less 'force' them onto 'less-willing' customers (provided they want a continuing electricity supply) in order to avoid financial penalties for not meeting the 'targets' (which are 'compulsory').

 

[Murdochcat]

Exactly. As I've just written, once the suppliers have installed SMs for the majority of 'willing' customers, they may have to consider exercising their contractual right to more-or-less 'force' them onto 'less-willing' customers (provided they want a continuing electricity supply) in order to avoid financial penalties for not meeting the 'targets' (which are 'compulsory').

end of the day the Government will force them on people - like it or not

We haven't got one as yet but might have to to access EV charge rates in the near future

 

[JohnW2]

end of the day the Government will force them on people - like it or not

As I just wrote, they're ultimately effectively doing that, anyway, since suppliers will presumably do everything they can to avoid penalties for failing to meet targets, so will eventually use their 'own ways' of effectively forcing them into anyone who wants an electricity supply.

We haven't got one as yet but might have to to access EV charge rates in the near future

I have one in one property which I own, but not yet in my own house - but I would be quite happy to.

 

[SUNRAY]

...

However, if a customer enters into a contract with a supplier whereby the supplier agrees to provide an electricity supply provided that the customer complies with the agreed obligations in that contract, if one of those 'agreed obligations' is to allow the supplier to install "any metering equipment", then if the customer breaches the contract by refusing to allow the supplier to install the equipment which they wish to install, then the supplier could presumably discontinue the supply (just as they could if the customer breached the contract by not paying for electricity used)

You have just repeated yourself very closely


And I say you couldn't make it any clearer, unless it's the reader's second language.

 

[EFLImpudence]

...but is it correct and a valid argument against the statement that "smart meters are not compulsory in the U.K."?

 

[SUNRAY]

...but is it correct and a valid argument against the statement that "smart meters are not compulsory in the U.K."?

Let's get this straight once and for all apart from 'special cases' where the usage is predictable (as an example; street lighting)

Meters are compulsory and effectively the energy provider includes in their contract

..."any metering equipment"...

as john has repeadely mentioned.

I truly don't know how much clearer is could be to bring this bickering to a conclusion

 

[EFLImpudence]

FFS.

Let's get this straight once and for all apart from 'special cases' where the usage is predictable (as an example; street lighting)
Meters are compulsory and effectively the energy provider includes in their contract as john has repeadely mentioned.

The disagreement is about smart meters.
Is it compulsory to have a smart meter in the U.K.?

I truly don't know how much clearer is could be to bring this bickering to a conclusion

Well - you could get the answer right.

 

[SUNRAY]

FFS.


The disagreement is about smart meters.
Is it compulsory to have a smart meter in the U.K.?


Well - you could get the answer right.

As you can't be bothered to read what you have repeatedly been informed, I'll try to put it into little kiddies type terms:

There it no law or other legal action making SMs compulsory in the UK... is that clear enough? or do I have to go back further and start with Annie Apple, Bertie Ball etcetera?

 

[JohnW2]

You have just repeated yourself very closely

Indeed so, but ....

And I say you couldn't make it any clearer, unless it's the reader's second language.

... quite - so what more could I do than 'repeat myself'?

 

[JohnW2]

...but is it correct and a valid argument against the statement that "smart meters are not compulsory in the U.K."?

You're now just playing with words.

As we all know, 'smart' meters are not 'compulsory by law' BUT that doesn't alter the fact that they will eventually probably be essentially unavoidable, since suppliers will presumably have to invoke their contractual rights in order to avoid penaltiues for not meeting their 'targets' (which ARE 'compulsory').