Smart meters - good choice?

[EFLImpudence]

And frankly the smart meter refuseniks are looking more and more like tinfoil hat wearing swivel eyed conspiracy fafantasists.

Why is that?

I would have thought it was becoming more apparent that the government is not averse to a bit of authoritarianism.

Do you miss arrows on the floor telling you which way to walk around a shop?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I can't easily understand what you're saying; on your graph I see two lines, a jaggedy one that is usually around 20p and a straight one that is around 5p. If the jagged one is what you pay with a smart meter, and the straight one is what I pay with a dumb meter, I'll take the dumb meter please. I'll also take some advice on how to get a 5p tariff?!

If you look at the graph, there is an unbroken straight line, from around 25p, that is the CAP, what many are paying. There is a light-blue jagged line, which starts at around 21p, and drops on two days, to almost 15p - that is what I pay each day, for electric, and the cost changes each day, but is a fixed for that entire day.

The dashed red-line, is the CAP for gas, The varying colour line, usually below it is what I pay each day, for my gas.

Both costs, can, and sometimes do, rise over the CAP, but what really matters is the average, and the average cost is well below the CAP, VARIABLE< and the FIX. That alone, saves me a considerable amount over a year. If you want to save even more, you can simply keep an eye on the graph, and avoid heavy use when the cost is high.

 

[robinbanks]

Thanks for the zoom; I see the lines you're talking about now (nearly invisible on a cellphone). Makes sense!

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Thanks for the zoom; I see the lines you're talking about now (nearly invisible on a cellphone). Makes sense!

They are not easy to see on the PC screen.

 

[ericmark]

I can't easily understand what you're saying; on your graph I see two lines, a jaggedy one that is usually around 20p and a straight one that is around 5p. If the jagged one is what you pay with a smart meter, and the straight one is what I pay with a dumb meter, I'll take the dumb meter please. I'll also take some advice on how to get a 5p tariff?!

I assume this is the graph in question?

I would have thought reasonable clear the bottom line is gas, and the jaggedy one electric, and in the main the electric costs less than the 23.86p per kWh typically charged with a single rate.

We have two domestic electric users, those who can store energy, and those who can't, and for those who can store energy, with the imminent demise of RTS those who can store energy really have no option but use the smart meter. The government has said we can refuse the smart meter, but also the supplier can refuse any split tariff if you don't have one.

So we are looking at those who can't store electric, who with the smart meter are given the option to gamble. It does seem from the graph, up to now the gamble is paying off, but still a gamble.

 

[robinbanks]

I would have thought reasonable clear

Look at the graph on a cellphone, without zooming into it. Then consider mottie's post said there were two lines on the graph; there are actually 4 relevant lines on the graph, but only two are clearly visible on a cell, which is why I told Mottie I couldn't understand his post, indicated what I could see/how I interpreted his words, and waited for the delivered clarification. I now understand the point Mottie was making

up to now the gamble is paying off, but still a gamble.

I dare say it's not an unreasonable strategy to have home storage(one is not prohibited from obtaining either) and a variable price tariff that you can use to fill up the storage when the price point falls.. I don't think it's gambling really, it's betting on horses that you know are going to win.. Likebbuying oat milk in bulk when you see it for 50% off in Aldi..
..but even if one didn't have home storage, it would still be possible to shift use to cheap times, timers on washer/dishwasher, batch cook etc

Everyone has their tolerance of changing schedule to a point where inconvenience is experienced and being offered the choice of operating anywhere in that range all the way up to behaviour another might seem crazy, that's fine by me..

The days of plentiful cheap energy may be gone, and better for the planet if so; getting people to adjust their behaviour to be more sympathetic to the environment they live in is a benefit and one we used to know well (seasonal fruit and veg etc, once upon a time you just didn't have strawberries in winter), then along comes industry and global commerce and says "you can have whatever you want, whenever you want it, we just have to use a whopping amount of energy to do so" - that was fine when you had a small population, but harmful at the scale it now runs at.. That needs to change; the expectation that we can always act as we have done the past 100 years, is just lunacy, and worse that the "third world" looks to follow in those destructive footsteps, as they strive to catch up with western ideals and life patterns.

 

[ericmark]

Everyone has their tolerance of changing schedule to a point where inconvenience is experienced and being offered the choice of operating anywhere in that range all the way up to behaviour another might seem crazy, that's fine by me..

Yes, seems Angela Ripon does gardening at night. If you believe the advert. I had to decide which tariff to select, and it was not that easy, as in the main you need to agree on a 12-month contract, or pay to get out, so one has to consider the worst month, in my case December.

Looking at 8.5p + 30.17p v single 26.86p with even use, the former works out at an average of 25.65442p so yes there is a gain, but we don't use electric even through the day. My own usage is not really a valid example, as I know this time of year, my solar and battery will means I am not using any power during the 30.17p/kWh time, so make no effort to do so.

Be it an arranged multi-tariff like go, flux, Economy 7 extra or a follow the market, to take advantage one has to select when power is used, and the big three, washing machine, tumble dryer, and dishwasher once the cycle has started need to continue, the same with cooking, and many other activities, in fact the only power use I can set up to follow in my case solar production is the heating of the domestic hot water.

 

[morqthana]

Why is that?

Because there are no rational grounds to object to them.

I would have thought it was becoming more apparent that the government is not averse to a bit of authoritarianism.

I'm sure if you have a mind to you could cast every single legal requirement to do anything as "authoritarianism".

I'm more concerned about the authoritarianism of the government making judges force defendants and witnesses in court to perjure themselves, and of them having the police break down the doors of places of worship to arrest people attending meetings, and to enter sheltered accommodation to arrest vulnerable people for having attended meetings, than I am about them giving electricity suppliers targets for smart meter installations.

Do you miss arrows on the floor telling you which way to walk around a shop?

Do you not have Ikea stores in Portugal?

 

[Munroast]

we had to have a smart meter fitted as we were going for Solar Panels - the 'Smart' meter was fitted a couple of months before the Solar installation and I went for Octopus Agile - and without changing one aspect of how and when we consume electric (I didn't even tell the wife) the average price we paid during that time was 18.5p (as opposed to the 23.15 that we had been paying)
we just naturally eat late, usually start preparing dinner about 7:30 - so the Agile and Smart meter is something I wish I had opted for much earlier

 

[Munroast]

still with Agile, gives me opportunities to charge the solar batteries for free, then export at 15 during the day
this was last nights

 

[fixitflav]

It doesn't quite say that.

It says exactly that. I copied/pasted the passage from their email

 

[JohnW2]

It says exactly that. I copied/pasted the passage from their email

He's not suggesting that you have misquoted the e-mail but, rather, is talking about your interpretation.

The fact that the meter needs replacement is simply a fact. However, it merely says that "reasonable steps" should be taken to replace it with a 'smart' meter - not, as you wrote, that it MUST, by law, be replaced with a 'smart' meter.

 

[fixitflav]

OK, see what you mean.
It also says
"We understand you opted out of getting a smart meter installed, but your current meter’s certification has expired and we have a legal obligation to replace it."
which I should have included. That seems to be laying it on thick.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

So we are looking at those who can't store electric, who with the smart meter are given the option to gamble. It does seem from the graph, up to now the gamble is paying off, but still a gamble.

It's just that more of the gamble, or risk, is accepted by the customer, than the supplier, so the customer benefits financially from absorbing that slight risk. When you are on a Fix, or a Variable, the supplier has to charge more, to ensure they have a financial buffer, against their cost suddenly rising, and being unable to charge their customers more. The tracker, allows them to charge more, within 24 hours - minimising their gamble.

If the price goes up, the customer can always save, by reducing their consumption, or bear the true cost.

 

[JohnW2]

OK, see what you mean.
It also says
"We understand you opted out of getting a smart meter installed, but your current meter’s certification has expired and we have a legal obligation to replace it."
which I should have included. That seems to be laying it on thick.

Why do you say that? There is a legal obligation to replace a meter whose certification has expired - and that makes sense, and is in the customer's interests, since it would otherwise be possible that the customer might be overpaying for the electricity they use (or underpaying, but the law is probably less concerned about that).

The discussion is not about the need to replace the 'expired' meter, since that is required by law, but, rather, about what it is replaced with.