Distance between BS1363 Sockets and Data points?

[eveares]

So section 7.4.2 in the OSG (Currently page 93) says that Band 1 data cables and Band 2 mains power cables need to be 150mm apart from each other, except under certain cases defined under sub section (a) like where they are enclosed in a separate conduit, are of mineral insulated type, etc... where Band 1 and Band 2 cables may be 50mm apart instead of 150mm.

So a couple of questions in my mind come to mind; If a band 1 and a band 2 cable were running down a wall, clipped directly to the same wall, what distance would they need to be apart? I would assume 150mm, as subsection (a) under 7.4.2 does not mention about cables clipped directly inline with each other.

But how about if a band 1 and a band 2 cable were running down a wall, but each in their own recessed chase in the wall. What would the distance between the two chases need to be? 50mm or 150mm? I.e. Would two chases in a wall be treated like conduit or like cables clipped directly to a wall?

I see many new builds/renovations where they have normal BS1363 electrical sockets and data sockets in living rooms where the distance between them is <150mm.


Advice and pointing to regs would much be appreciate on this.

Kind regards: Elliott.

 

[ericmark]

And cable for EV charging points have them both in the same cable! Think you need to read it with a little bit killed acid.

 

[eveares]

And cable for EV charging points have them both in the same cable! Think you need to read it with a little bit killed acid.

Except in that case, the data part of the cable is surrounded in insulation that is rated equal or higher to the mains part of the cable.

 

[morqthana]

It seems I have floor joists with holes in through which run mains cables and phone ones.

 

[eveares]

It seems I have floor joists with holes in through which run mains cables and phone ones.

When was that done and by who? That would seem to violate the current regs based on my interpretation of them.

 

[ericmark]

Last century, my son was working wiring new build houses, the beams had holes already for services, water, gas, electric etc. Then the builder decided these were too expensive, and the 1/3 rule for drilling beams resulted in far more cable being used, so the ring final exceeded the 106 meters, but this was not realised until the testing was done, so around 2 houses had 20 amp MCB's on the ring finals after that the way it was wired was re-configured so full 32 amp MCB's were used again.

Back then he was only an electricians mate, often wonder what happened with the two odd houses.

But yes, where I worked we had a problem where the alarm installer had used the tray installed for the low voltage supplies, on an EICR this was picked up, and the boss simply said, they should not be there, remove them, which of course set off the alarm.

But as to 150 mm, often this is impossible, so the question is, why not any closer, I was told it was due to interference, so either the low voltage or extra low voltage cables or both needs some screening. Be that Ali-tube or SWA or Mineral insulated, it really does not matter, but if the On-site-guide does not list all the alternative methods, then not real point having it.

I did, very early in my working life, come across a problem with car radios, and them getting interference from the car, I followed all the instructions, with chokes, suppressors, braid links, etc, improved, but still a problem, old guy came across, and said maybe the radio, I have a new radio going to fit it in my car, try swapping radios and see what is the result, and no interference with his radio, and this is the problem, if some data is being corrupted, is it down to the cable run, or poor quality equipment?

 

[morqthana]

When was that done and by who?

Many years ago and don't know.

 

[jj4091]

It seems I have floor joists with holes in through which run mains cables and phone ones.

I don't rhink you will need to worry about it, if you ever have, once everyone is switched to fibre into the house.

 

[ebee]

"It seems I have floor joists with holes in through which run mains cables and phone ones"
.
Not uncommon I`m afraid, folk tend to not stick to the rules, and yes some of those folks are Electricians and some are "Electricians".
As also said, Ring Finals (and Radials) are sometimes too long as well.
With a little thought and due diligence lots of situations could be avoided or minimised.
Sometimes a little bit of little bit of Crafty Planning can save the day.

 

[EFLImpudence]

There is

So section 7.4.2 in the OSG (Currently page 93) says that Band 1 data cables and Band 2 mains power cables need to be 150mm apart from each other, except under certain cases defined under sub section (a) like where they are enclosed in a separate conduit, are of mineral insulated type, etc... where Band 1 and Band 2 cables may be 50mm apart instead of 150mm.

Is that correct?

I only have 2018 OSG and it says something completely different than that.

Namely, for example, that the distance should be 50mm. unless a non-conducting divider is inserted between the cables.

Have things changed that much since then for some reason?

 

[martygturner]

So section 7.4.2 in the OSG (Currently page 93) says that Band 1 data cables and Band 2 mains power cables need to be 150mm apart from each other, except under certain cases defined under sub section (a) like where they are enclosed in a separate conduit, are of mineral insulated type, etc... where Band 1 and Band 2 cables may be 50mm apart instead of 150mm.

So a couple of questions in my mind come to mind; If a band 1 and a band 2 cable were running down a wall, clipped directly to the same wall, what distance would they need to be apart? I would assume 150mm, as subsection (a) under 7.4.2 does not mention about cables clipped directly inline with each other.

But how about if a band 1 and a band 2 cable were running down a wall, but each in their own recessed chase in the wall. What would the distance between the two chases need to be? 50mm or 150mm? I.e. Would two chases in a wall be treated like conduit or like cables clipped directly to a wall?

I see many new builds/renovations where they have normal BS1363 electrical sockets and data sockets in living rooms where the distance between them is <150mm.


Advice and pointing to regs would much be appreciate on this.

Kind regards: Elliott.

probably best to read and then actually quote the regs rather than going off on some fairy trail to Narnia.

7.4.1
Band I circuits must not be contained within the same wiring system as Band II circuits unless
(a) every cable is insulated for the highest voltage present.

There it ends as data cable is PE insulated which is +1000 VA AC resistant.

see here for dielectric properties :

 

[mattylad]

In essence they can be as far or close to each other as you want to put them.

Stick a 1/2"+ between both sockets for wiggle room and plate changes that may not be the exact same size and your very likely perfectly fine.
The "I must follow the wiring std 100% Electricians will have a fit but if it still works it still works.
It's only when you have problems that it becomes an issue.

And before they cry about it, ask when is the last time they actually had a problem because the cables were run closer than the guidance suggests.

As all cables will be insulated well enough that they can touch each other, your only likely issue is going to be EMI, interference from the AC cable to the data cable - and if that data cable is shielded then your very likely to be okidoki.

 

[eveares]

probably best to read and then actually quote the regs rather than going off on some fairy trail to Narnia.

I did. Look at 7.4.2 (b) below. (Reg 528.8 strangely does not mention 50mm or 150mm and seems to relate to underground cables.)

I'm not sure how running parallel T&E wires down a wall would fall under 7.4.2 (a), so I guess would fall under 7.4.2 (b) instead.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes - but as said:

probably best to read and then actually quote the regs rather than going off on some fairy trail to Narnia.

7.4.1
Band I circuits must not be contained within the same wiring system as Band II circuits unless
(a) every cable is insulated for the highest voltage present.

You would be foolish to be needing any of the other methods.

 

[eveares]

Yes - but as said:



You would be foolish to be needing any of the other methods.

That raises another question though, even though data, aerial/satellite coax, alarm cables, telephone cables, etc... cables are PVC insulated, what are they officially rated at from a voltage perspective?