Soldier F.

[Odds]

It is utterly, utterly, irrelevant to the question of whether British soldiers should be allowed to get away with murder.

I can't believe it's not Utterly.

 

[Odds]

That's true.
Soldiering and policing are two separate disciplines.
Soldiers don't make good policemen.

At the time the authorities had no choice but to use the army to support the police.
The police are trained to police civilian society, the IRA were using military grade weapons and explosives against them,
The use of the army was unavoidable.

Make your mind up.

 

[Odds]

if the IRA hadnt caused the conflict the British army would not have been there

ergo any deaths caused by the British army were the fault of the IRA

Chicken and egg.
Are you sure the IRA caused the conflict?

 

[Vinty]

Make your mind up.

I did make my mind up.
I said that soldiers don't make good policemen.
I also said that using soldiers was unavoidable.
I used the word unavoidable because at the time there was no alternative.
The situation was such, that soldiers had to be used due to the seriousness of the emergency.

 

[Vinty]

So it wasn't reopened, it was never concluded before.

The case was closed and no further action was proposed by the PPS in 2019 the case REOPENED in 2022.

 

[Notch7]

Chicken and egg.
Are you sure the IRA caused the conflict?

The British were first deployed in Northern Ireland in 1969 due to escalating sectarian violence

If there wasn’t violence they would not have gone there.

 

[Vinty]

The British were first deployed in Northern Ireland in 1969 due to escalating sectarian violence

If there wasn’t violence they would not have gone there.

Interestingly it was the Catholic/Nationalist community who wanted the army to be sent in to protect them in 1969.
So much for the claim that the army was an 'occupying force'.

 

[fillyboy]

Interestingly it was the Catholic/Nationalist community who wanted the army to be sent in to protect them in 1969.
So much for the claim that the army was an 'occupying force'.

I've never heard of a Catholic/Nationalist side, I've always assumed they were Republicans?

 

[morqthana]

Chicken and egg.
Are you sure the IRA caused the conflict?

The British were first deployed in Northern Ireland in 1969 due to escalating sectarian violence

If there wasn’t violence they would not have gone there.

I know what Odds is getting at, but I didn't like it when people put words into my mouth, so I'll leave it to him.

But as with many conflicts world-wide, how far back do you wanna go?

 

[morqthana]

Irrespective of Odds, here's my answer to Notch.

The British were first deployed in Northern Ireland in 1969 due to escalating sectarian violence

Yes.

By "loyalists" against Catholics.

You should read about what the UPV and the UVF were up to before then, with bombings and shootings of random Catholic civilians.

You should read about the discrimination faced by Catholics in Northern Ireland.

You should read about the attacks on the non-violent civil-rights campaigners by "loyalists" and the RUC.

If there wasn’t violence they would not have gone there.

The Provisional IRA did not exist until 1969.

During the escalating violence directed at Catholics before then, the IRA was pretty much a spent force. It existed, but its armed campaign to reunite Ireland had fizzled out, and it had become class-based, and didn't want to get involved in sectarian issues.

If the Catholic community in NI hadn't been oppressed, and if the "loyalist" terrorist groups had not embarked on a sectarian violence against them, would the Provos have emerged?

We'll never know, but I think it's unlikely. Internal tensions in the IRA could still have created a split, but there would have been no causus belli in NI.

I'll now wait for the usual bone-headed suspects who hate truths which run counter to their blinkered, bigoted ignorance to come crawling out of the woodwork and say that because I pointed these things out I must be an IRA sympathiser.

 

[Odds]

The British were first deployed in Northern Ireland in 1969 due to escalating sectarian violence

guess again.

If there wasn’t violence they would not have gone there.

you're looking at the effect and failing to locate the cause.
Good job you're not a plumber.

 

[Odds]

I've never heard of a Catholic/Nationalist side, I've always assumed they were Republicans?

Not much difference between 'em really.
Here's Slugger o'Toole to explain.

 

[Odds]

Interestingly it was the Catholic/Nationalist community who wanted the army to be sent in to protect them in 1969.

protect them from Ulster paramilitaries.

So much for the claim that the army was an 'occupying force'.

which they became as the conflict progressed.

 

[Notch7]

Explain how shooting unarmed civilians in the back, with intent to kill them, while they are running away from you, is "killing the enemy".




"I was only following orders" has been shown to not be a defence.

Explain how shooting unarmed civilians in the back, with intent to kill them, while they are running away from you, and not posing any threat to you, is not murder.

Easy for you to look calmly at a situation from the comfort of your armchair.

 

[Odds]

And so as I patrol in the valley of the shadow of the tricolour
I must fear evil, for I am but mortal and mortals can only die
Asking questions, pleading answers from the nameless faceless watchers
That stalk the carpeted corridors of Whitehall
Who orders desecration, mutilation, verbal masturbation
in the guarded bureaucratic wombs
Minister, minister care for your children, order them not into damnation
To eliminate those who would trespass against you
For whose is the kingdom, the power, the glory forever and ever, Amen
Forgotten Sons