Removing wall internal wall >> Fire Regs

[nero44]

Hello,

I am planning a side return project. The floor plan will be somewhat along the lines of the image. My question is not regrading the actual side return, but regarding the removal of an internal hallway wall. The dotted line is currently an internal stud wall and I want to remove it to open the space up of the second reception room. I am aware that a structural engineer needs to check this for load bearing etc, but I am coming more from a fire reg side. I am aware of some properties in my area who have successfully removed this wall, but my architect tells me that regs have changed and this would not be allowable anymore due to fire escape route. The only way to make this work would be with a sprinkler system, which would be a massive overkill.

Does anyone know which fire regs are considered here and if there is no way to make this work with an appropriate number smoke alarms?

 

[^woody^]

The fire regulations never applied to two storey houses, and have not changed in that respect.

Means of escape requirements have not changed either, and your proposal won't be altering the existing situation.

 

[nero44]

Thanks for the response, but I have three floors, ground, first and second.

 

[^woody^]

Then it would contravene the MoE requirement for a protected escape route to external.

A sprinkler system (plus enhanced fire detection and warning system) is not acceptable to many local authorities.

 

[nero44]

Then it would contravene the MoE requirement for a protected escape route to external.

Thanks.

It sounds a bit like it's a no go and regulations on this have indeed changed in the last 10 years. Before I give up completely..given that this reg only applies to dwellings of more than 2 storeys, I interpret that you need inhabitants of the second floor to have enough time to exit safely all the way to the ground floor. Does it help if my 1st floor has a has a balcony to the outside, with an only 2.2m. drop to the ground level? This could in theory serve as an exit route completely bypassing the ground floor with the potential open wall?

 

[opps]

I recently worked for a customer who purchased a first floor maisonette in White City (west London). She added another floor and created a two bedroom flat. To exit the flat, you have to walk through the kitchen. She had to install an auto "mist" system.

https://plumis.co.uk/water-mist-domestic-fire-sprinkler-system

It is pretty cool. You have a wall plate that is a bit bigger than a double gang socket. The spray plate only spins out in the event of a fire. Elsewhere you have a compressor that looks like a PC tower.

Initially, she was told that she also needed a skylight which would open in the event of a fire. The local authority told her that the mist system was sufficient so she sold the skylight. When isolating the supply to it, I discovered that her builder hadn't connected it to the fire alarm sensor.

Oh, I only installed the supplies for the mist system.

 

[^woody^]

Thanks.

It sounds a bit like it's a no go and regulations on this have indeed changed in the last 10 years. Before I give up completely..given that this reg only applies to dwellings of more than 2 storeys, I interpret that you need inhabitants of the second floor to have enough time to exit safely all the way to the ground floor. Does it help if my 1st floor has a has a balcony to the outside, with an only 2.2m. drop to the ground level? This could in theory serve as an exit route completely bypassing the ground floor with the potential open wall?

There must be a protected route direct to an external door, which in turn has a safe route to safety.

This route should not pass though a room, and if above ground level must have a dedicated external staircase, not a balcony or other waiting area expecting rescue.

Make some enquiries at the council's building control team and see what they will accept. Inspectors are a lot more helpful than planners, and advice will be free.

 

[opps]

There must be a protected route direct to an external door, which in turn has a safe route to safety.

This route should not pass though a room, and if above ground level must have a dedicated external staircase, not a balcony or other waiting area expecting rescue.

Make some enquiries at the council's building control team and see what they will accept. Inspectors are a lot more helpful than planners, and advice will be free.

Apropos the auto mist system, TBH, I don't know if she had it signed off by building control but they definitely inspected the site after she had it fitted whilst I was still working there. Out of my area of knowledge though.

 

[^woody^]

Apropos the auto mist system, TBH, I don't know if she had it signed off by building control but they definitely inspected the site after she had it fitted whilst I was still working there. Out of my area of knowledge though.

AFAIK, any acceptance of alternatives is on a risk-assessed basis per individual property and there is no blanket acceptance of alternatives to a protected escape route