Plug in solar

[ericmark]

I have wondered where the inverter measures to decide how much to put into batteries etc. I how plug in solar would integrate or not with the existing solar.

As it stands, it does not matter, the tariffs mean I get more for export (12p) to what I pay for off-peak (8.625p) so the easy option is to fully charge overnight and then export when/if the sun is bright enough.

Yesterday was rather a bad day for solar (4.3 kWh) but still enough together with the off-peak, to see me until the next off-peak today started. To try to guess how much off-peak required is near impossible, and should the off-peak become more expensive or the export pay less, then I would need to consider a third battery, and/or some solar panels to catch the morning sun.

I think I am understanding @ebee in that the batteries and plug in solar are separate units, for example a V2G EV outlet plugged into a car, which is a plug in battery, independent of plug in solar, but to have a V2G EV charge point, a G99 would need submitting, output too high for G98, I suppose you can have an EV motorhome with solar panels on the roof, so in real terms we have two completely different plug-in solar systems.

There can be no denial that it is permitted to plug-in portable batteries in the form of an EV. So I suppose it should be called BS1363-solar so it is clear which plug-in system is being talked about?

So is using solar to heat domestic hot water considered as having storage? Even the word battery is a problem, if someone develops a 50 volt cell, then that's not a battery.

However,

the point is, these things are terrible value for money leaving those who are daft enough to buy them considerably out of pocket.

this is true, so in real terms we still do not have plug and play solar.

3.3 Household
A single dwelling unit with its own electricity supply and consumer unit. In buildings containing
multiple dwellings (e.g. blocks of flats, converted houses), each dwelling with its own consumer
unit is treated as a separate household.

That is it would seem incorrect, the local council use very different rules, I have one consumer unit and one meter supplying both main house and flat under the main house, and each has its own council tax charges, its own bins, believe me, I wish that was not the case, it costs me £1000 a year because there are no internal stairs between the two.

I have tried to argue that a 60 amp supply to two kitchens, two bathrooms with electric showers, would never work unless the occupants of both main house and flat were a family who lived together, so did not use both bathrooms at the same time or both kitchens at the same time, but it seems the supply has nothing to do with it, it is all down to the access between the two being external.

 

[denso13]

That is it would seem incorrect, the local council use very different rules, I

So what, the council don't make the plug in solar rules.

this is true, so in real terms we still do not have plug and play solar.

Of course we do, only on day two, once things settle prices will drop substantially. If there is only one on the market it will invariably come at a premium.

 

[ebee]

I had a customer who was quite high up in a national landord association thingy , quite intelligent and knowledgeable chap, good bloke too.

He gave me an example he had with one of his own rentals.

House under rennovation and not yet really fit for renting out in his opinion.
Got a council tax bill and demands etc so he put it to them it was not yet fit for habitation therefore exempt, they disagreed and insist he pay accordingly.
He got in touch with Enviromental dept?? or somesuch of the same coucil and asked if he could rent it out as it was - simple answer - no.
Bext step he was about to do was to get to the chief exec of that council and ask if both the tax and rental overseers got team up and come to one conclusion - was his house fit or unfit to rent out? i am not sure of the outcme as it had a long drawn out correspondance to get the two departments to reach one conclusion according their own rules, I wonder if he ever took such to court.
He could understand one electrical orginisation and one gas orginisation and one building orginisation not agreeing on some definitions of things but not one coucil two departments not having one conclusion to an example - Salor Vee as Delboy may comment!

 

[ericmark]

@ebee has hit the nail on the head, it does seem the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing.

 

[morqthana]

3.3 Household
A single dwelling unit with its own electricity supply and consumer unit. In buildings containing
multiple dwellings (e.g. blocks of flats, converted houses), each dwelling with its own consumer
unit is treated as a separate household.

Where is that from?

 

[morqthana]

No idea, nothing stopping people ignoring any laws/regulations.

You mean the police aren't going to form a Serious Solar Regulations Contravention Squad?

 

[denso13]

Where is that from?

Page 10, https://assets.publishing.service.g...olar-final-_interim-product-specification.pdf

 

[denso13]

You mean the police aren't going to form a Serious Solar Regulations Contravention Squad?

Doubt it, I think they are busy on the BS 7671 contraventions...

 

[ericmark]

Oh dear, seems we got it wrong again dad! Or it this why only one approved? It seems rather shocking.

 

[denso13]

Oh dear, seems we got it wrong again dad! Or it this why only one approved? It seems rather shocking.

He could have used an approved plug in one, which he didn't. Oh well...

Good warning for the general public though, don't put plugs on things you aren't supposed to!!!

 

[ericmark]

Two different makes, with same result, and his first test used a lamp like with the efixx and the SDS drill, and it seemed OK, it was then there was no load, there was a problem, and it was a DC not an AC voltage at the pins.

So a German socket you can unplug by pulling on the lead, but with a British socket you have to grab the plug. As he said turn off at the switch first and one should be OK, but how many people do that.

 

[denso13]

Two different makes, with same resul

Yes, he should have tried an approved one.

I presume he reported his finding to the relevant authorities? Or maybe not, they are MCS approved solar installers though after all, just a coincidence then...

 

[morqthana]

Page 10, https://assets.publishing.service.g...olar-final-_interim-product-specification.pdf

So they think they have the power to usurp established dictionary definitions.

OK. I guess they must be Humpty Dumpty.

But that does not mean that that is the definition of household in any other context whatsoever.

 

[denso13]

But that does not mean that that is the definition of household in any other context whatsoever.

Correct. This is the plug in solar thread though.

 

[morqthana]

Correct. This is the plug in solar thread though.

Quite so.

Is this an example of a regulation written by someone who thinks he knows what is obvious but in reality doesn't know what he should?

3.3 Household
A single dwelling unit with its own electricity supply and consumer unit. In buildings containing
multiple dwellings (e.g. blocks of flats, converted houses), each dwelling with its own consumer
unit is treated as a separate household.

The specification defines neither "dwelling unit" nor "single" nor "multiple" which means those term can only be interpreted according to their established dictionary or, if relevant, legal definitions.

Under English law, a dwelling is defined as a self-contained 'substantial' unit of accommodation, such as a building, part of a building, caravan, houseboat or other mobile home. A tent is not normally considered substantial.

It's presumably the highlighted bit which Eric's council are relying on when they classify his building as two individual properties. But according to those P.I.S.S. regulations, a single dwelling unit has to have its own supply and CU.

"Legally", (broadly speaking) Eric has two self-contained substantial units of accommodation, i.e. a building with "multiple dwelling units". But according to those P.I.S.S. regulations, multiple dwelling units have to have multiple supplies and CUs.

So thanks to the twit at the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero who didn't think, from their POV Eric has neither one household (as they didn't bother to redefine "dwelling"), nor two (as neither space has its own supply/CU).