Electricians' tedious bickering

[securespark]

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Anyway, FR - in summary a simple question, simple one word answer - do you still think I'm wrong, yes or no?
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Place your bets, ladies 'n' gennlemen, please!!

 

[Softus]

And I frequently sharpen my best screwdrivers:

 

[securespark]

They're not screwdrivers, it's a set of board lifters...

 

[JohnD]

paint-tin openers

 

[Softus]

Strictly speaking you're right, of course.

Whilst the little one is the screwdriver, the middle one is a lost-head-nail lifter, and the big one is a multi-purpose nine-way unbreakable Chrome Molybdenum super-adaptive lifetime-warrantied Professional Kwollitee™ back-scratcher.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Fingernail cleaners.

 

[FingRinal]

As things stand BAS, under the 16th, you are wrong.

Your standard of workmanship juding by pictures you've posted of your own installation is poor.

Your level of understanding of the application of the Regs on a practical level therefore is poor.

Your level of udnerstanding of the nature and intention of the OSG is flawed.

Your attitude to Regulations, Approved Docs andGuidance Notes, is negative and one can only deduce from that, that your application is poor.

You are good at making an argument for the sake of an argument and usually have the last word as people (myself included) lose the will to live. You may think that is a good thing. You would alone in thinking that.

The scenarios of jacked-up ideas, thoughts and interpretations of publications methodologies based on your eccentric understanding of the real world is very worrying. Please don't attempt to convince others to follow suit.

At the origin of your installation, before even getting into the installation proper, there are serious and fundamental defects. In my experience, this spells only a taster of the things to come.

The 17th as I recall from the draft document includes some worrying steps backwards as regards safety. It is not a document solely packed with improvements. European alignment does not necesarily mean improvement. I'm pleased that it includes more specific definitions and diagrams but it does not necesarily mean it's an improvement.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

As things stand BAS, under the 16th, you are wrong.

A spur is defined in part 2 of the regs as a branch cable from a ring final circuit. (P.202 Basic Electrical Installation Work, T.Linsley).

To throw a spanner in the works - 17th definition, Spur - A branch from a ring or radial final circuit.........so to act as referee...BAS is right....but not for long

I have spoken directly today to a well-known person who used to be heavily involved with the IEE, writing articles & answering the phone to technical queries.

He says the following, of the 16th edition.

Indeed, the definition of spurs does relate solely to ring final circuits.

Therefore, a spur can only exist as part of a ring final circuit and not a radial circuit.

Your standard of workmanship juding by pictures you've posted of your own installation is poor.

Your level of understanding of the application of the Regs on a practical level therefore is poor.

Can you please explain, logically, and without introducing any ad hominem fallacies, why that should mean that I am unable to understand what a spur is, and to what the OSG section on spurs refers? I've already asked you that once, but you have failed to do it.

Given the vigour with which you are pursuing me, and ignoring the others who are telling you the same (why is that, BTW?) it's very tempting to conclude that if you could do so you would, and therefore the fact that you haven't means you know full well you can't.

It is no more than a reasonable conclusion, but I doubt that I'm the only one who has formed it.

Your level of udnerstanding of the nature and intention of the OSG is flawed.

I have spoken directly today to a well-known person who used to be heavily involved with the IEE, writing articles & answering the phone to technical queries.

He says the following, of the 16th edition.

Indeed, the definition of spurs does relate solely to ring final circuits.

Therefore, a spur can only exist as part of a ring final circuit and not a radial circuit.

Your attitude to Regulations, Approved Docs andGuidance Notes, is negative

No it isn't, unless you define positive to mean "ignore the reality".

and one can only deduce from that, that your application is poor.

Can you please explain, logically, and without introducing any ad hominem fallacies, why an accurate understanding of the status of the regulations etc means that my application is poor.

You are good at making an argument for the sake of an argument

All I have done is to consistently, reasonably, and logically defend myself against your persistent and incorrect declarations that I am wrong.

It was not I that started this argument for the sake of it, it was you when you erroneously stated that the advice I had given to somebody was incorrect.

and usually have the last word as people (myself included) lose the will to live. You may think that is a good thing. You would alone in thinking that.

I will not refrain from defending myself, or repeatedly making the same point which you repeatedly ignore, or drawing to your attention that other people are making the same point, which you repeatedly ignore, just because you think I should.

The scenarios of jacked-up ideas, thoughts and interpretations of publications methodologies based on your eccentric understanding of the real world is very worrying. Please don't attempt to convince others to follow suit.

What?

Where is the eccentricity in saying that the definition of a spur does not include a branch from a radial when IEE experts say the same thing?

At the origin of your installation, before even getting into the installation proper, there are serious and fundamental defects. In my experience, this spells only a taster of the things to come.

Serious and fundamental now, are they? I don't agree, but even if that were true could you explain, logically, and without introducing any ad hominem fallacies, why that should mean that I am unable to understand what a spur is, and to what the OSG section on spurs refers?

The 17th as I recall from the draft document includes some worrying steps backwards as regards safety. It is not a document solely packed with improvements. European alignment does not necesarily mean improvement. I'm pleased that it includes more specific definitions and diagrams but it does not necesarily mean it's an improvement.

That may well be so.

But it has nothing to do with whether a spur means a branch from a radial circuit.

 

[RF Lighting]

For gods sake. I'm loosing the will to live now.

Fing just accept you are wrong and then we can all get on with our lives.

 

[Softus]

I reckon that the 16th Edition is wrong, and a branch from a radial is also a spur.

 

[dingodeano]

has anyone looked at definitions (page 29) in BS:7671 2008.
it says : Spur : A branch from a ring or radial circuit.
so whats the problem?

 

[Softus]

The 17th Edition isn't in force yet, so you're taking a glimpse of the future.

The present is all taken up with some people arguing about something that's probably a typing error in the editions that precede the 17th.

 

[dingbat]

The thing is, Fing, you are wrong. (But don't worry... lots of other electricians are too.)

The sooner you admit it, the sooner BAS'll stop cluttering up the forum with refutations of every sentence you type.

For all our sakes, let it go, man.

 

[dingodeano]

kids eh.

 

[Softus]

The sooner you admit it, the sooner BAS'll stop cluttering up the forum with refutations of every sentence you type.

It won't make any difference.