immersion heater only heating top half of tank..??

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Hi guys,
As above only heating top half of tank when either on bath or sink.
I watched the meter spinning and it would appear that when on sink there is a higher current draw...now its been like this since i moved in 3 years ago but only getting around to solving it now...any ideas??

Ive read that taking out one of these heater units can open a tin of worms(cracking the cylinder etc so dont want to go near it until its last resort)

Also...there are 2 elements in these right??...does only one come on at a time or do both come on when set to bath...if so the bath one may be gone
Marty.
 
From your description it does seem that the 'bath' element is not heating up.

This could be caused by any one or more of the following:

1. Cable not connected;
2. Faulty thermostat;
3. Overheat thermostat tripped;
4. Faulty element.

Do you have a multimeter? Do you know how to work safely with electricity?
 
yeah ive a multimeter...im an electronic engineer so no worries working with leccy
ie :-)

My element is the V same as the one here.......2 elements i reckon as there are 4 wires...can someone answer me whether or not both should be on when batch is selected or just the longer one??

http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=124106

Marty.
 
My element is the V same as the one here.

http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=124106[/QUOTE]
OK.

2 elements i reckon as there are 4 wires.
OK.

can someone answer me whether or not both should be on when batch is selected or just the longer one?
When bath is selected it should be only the longer one.

Note that you can't replace just the longer element - you have to replace them as a pair. Not many places keep these in stock anymore, but you can find them on Interwebbyland.
 
just the long one, should draw about 12A

the smaller one may be 12A or sometimes 8A

if there is a sink/bath switch or toggle on the head, then it will only allow one to be on at a time. if there is an on/off sink/bath switch then it will also only allow one element on at a time. You might possibly have two thermostats, one for each element.

if you post a pic of the cap, and the arrangement of wires and studs under it, (plus any makers name and model) someone will probably recognise what you have.

the dual-element ones are surprisingly expensive but I think worth having. You can get different alloys on the element sheath which are supposed to be resistant to hard/soft/aggressive waters
 
cheers guys...kinda guessed it would only be one at a time.
Its EXACTLY the same as the one in the link i attached...same make and all.
Havent put a meter on it to measure the current draw but have watched the meter and it seems to spin faster when sink is selected which initially drew me to the conclusion that it was wired backwars...doesnt seem to be the case tho ...possibly a thermostat problem i reckon.
Marty.
 
if you have a clamp meter see what amps the elements draw. I did this on an old sink/bath and when it drew 8A I thought there was a fault until I learned the shorter element is only 2kW (nominal) but the longer is 3kW (nom)

the much more common single element heaters are 3kW nom.
 
cheers guys...kinda guessed it would only be one at a time.
Guessing is not a wise course of action, and is especially odd behaviour for an electronics engineer.

Its EXACTLY the same as the one in the link i attached...same make and all.
.
.
.
...possibly a thermostat problem i reckon.
How can it be a thermostat problem when there's only one thermostat and the sink element is working? :roll:

Measure the resistance of both elements - each one should be in the range 18 to 27 Ohms. It will be obvious if one of them is faulty.
 
Softus:
My guess was an educated one!!...and i was right...:-)

John...ive no clamp meter anymore...pity be handy for this...could use the multimeter to check current if it comes to it.

Ill check the resistance of the elements tonight but that aint going to tell me much other than one is completely shot...which i doubt as it seems to be wired correctly and im getting hot water on seemingly both elements/selections....just the top half???!!

My guess for thermostat is possibly that it may be positioned too high/or covered in scale...long element is switched on...heats water...hot water rises ...satisfies thermostat...element is switched off.

in any case i really need to pop the unit out to inspect it properly...whats the risk of damaging the cylinder doing this??(and subsequently ruining my weekend having to choose a new one and plumb it!!)

Cheers,
Marty.
 
Softus:
My guess was an educated one!!...and i was right...:-)
You didn't guess, you deduced. And you had only two choices, so rejoicing at your success is a weeny bit early, IMO.

John...ive no clamp meter anymore...pity be handy for this...could use the multimeter to check current if it comes to it.
Your terminology gives you away - you aren't, and never have been, an electronics engineer. This won't change the advice that you receive though, because the rest of us are generally honest.

Ill check the resistance of the elements tonight but that aint going to tell me much other than one is completely shot...
That would be a useful piece of information to most people.

...which i doubt as it seems to be wired correctly and im getting hot water on seemingly both elements/selections....
You were the one that said the meter spins faster when the short element is in use. :roll:

...just the top half???!!
If you live in a hard water area then it's possible that you have nothing but scale in the bottom half.

My guess for thermostat is possibly that it may be positioned too high/or covered in scale...long element is switched on...heats water...hot water rises ...satisfies thermostat...element is switched off.
This grammatically challenged outpouring is more likely an explanation that it appears, at first sight, to be.

Since you say you have only one rod thermostat, it would be worth measuring it. If it's only 11", say, then it will switch off earlier than, say, an 18" one, i.e. with less hot water in the cylinder.

If this is the case, then your seemingly intuited suggestion of the problem being with the thermostat deserved more credit then I gave you, so I apologise for that.

in any case i really need to pop the unit out to inspect it properly.
Oh you so don't need to do that. If you think that removing the dual element is easier than measuring resistance then you're crazy.

..whats the risk of damaging the cylinder doing this?
The relative risk is the product of several factors:

1. Age of cylinder;
2. Age of old element;
3. Method of sealing old element;
4. Competence in removing old element.

With the right tools and approach you won't fail to get the element out, but a sane person wouldn't ever put the same one back in, so if you're hell bent on removing it then you'd better get a new one first.

...(and subsequently ruining my weekend having to choose a new one and plumb it!!)
If the cylinder folded under the strain of trying to remove the element, then for your sake I hope it's a direct one, because with your approach the learning curve over a weekend would be vertical.
 
Softus..i AM a qualified electronic engineer....dont work as one anymore...havent worked in that industry in 9 years.
And just for the record i have actually never used a clamp meter through college or work...my old man used to have one and its the only one ive ever actually seen in use...so knowing/not knowing the currect term for this piece of kit is irrelevant as to ones qualifications.

You on the other hand seem to find great delight in chopping up peoples posts and giving us all your finest analysis!

The meter spins faster when sink is selected...marginally faster...it spins fast when bath is selected too, just not as fast...therefore the 2 selections are drawing current

I dont know if there are one or 2 thermostats within the unit...and i dont want to damage the tank taking the unit out to find this out.

The resistance of each/either element will tell you very little other than if continuity exists or not...and i believe both ELEMENTS to be working.

I thought too about the bottom half of the cylinder to be full of crap..but the tank can also be heated through a coil off the CH which has heated the tank in full in the past(one occasion i can remember anyways having a full bath!!)
I am in a hard water area so it may well be the case.

The tank is at a guess 30 years old...id say the element is too...there appears to be some form of gunge/sealant used whilst sealing.
Its a vented cylinder.
Marty.
 
Softus..i AM a qualified electronic engineer....dont work as one anymore...havent worked in that industry in 9 years.
I don't how else to put this, but I don't believe you, because a competent electronics engineer could ever write this:

could use the multimeter to check current if it comes to it.
And let's not forget the other porky:

John...ive no clamp meter anymore.
We now find out that you've never used one, let alone had one. :roll:

You on the other hand seem to find great delight in chopping up peoples posts and giving us all your finest analysis!
Please try to stay focussed on the task in hand. My feelings have nothing to do with your problem, but your credibility and skills have everything to do with it.

I dont know if there are one or 2 thermostats within the unit.
You said that your unit is the very same as the one in the image you referred to. You even said that it was the same make. That unit had only one thermostat, therefore yours does.

..and i dont want to damage the tank taking the unit out to find this out.
I don't want you to damage the tank either, but even you could surely remove the rod thermostat from its dry pocket without damaging anything.

The resistance of each/either element will tell you very little other than if continuity exists or not.
It would tell me a lot, but apparently it would tell you very little, so I'll leave it to you to work out, using your "electronics engineering qualifications", how in the past I've correctly diagnosed faulty elements when they aren't open circuit.

..and i believe both ELEMENTS to be working.
Fine. Your beliefs are clearly worth more to you than measurement and certainty.

Is your earth bonding all up to current standards, BTW?
 
You are unbelievable...
So you think its not possible to use a multimeter to measure current then??...ill show you how if you like.

I have used a clamp meter but as i dont live under the same roof as my old man anymore i dont have easy access to it anymore, nor do i know if he still has it in any case.
When we lived under the same roof i would have said "I have a TV"...doesnt mean i owned the TV tho

OK i didnt realise the t-stat was removeable dry from its housing...i can take a look @ that.
I thought maybe it was wired internally and there may have been 2, one being lower than the other within.

the fact that both elements are heating would leave me to believe that they are both working independantly and each will just spit back a low resistance when measured...why is that such a huge assumption?
Marty
 
You are unbelievable.
Whether or not you believe me is irrelevant - you're the one with the electrical/heating problem, and I'm one of the people who knows how to fix it.

So you think its not possible to use a multimeter to measure current then?
I didn't say that. What I implied, perhaps not clearly enough, is that I expect the current range of your multimeter to be insufficient.

ill show you how if you like.
You could show me how to be a charlatan, but I have no interest in that.

I have used a clamp meter but as i dont live under the same roof as my old man anymore i dont have easy access to it anymore, nor do i know if he still has it in any case.
When we lived under the same roof i would have said "I have a TV"...doesnt mean i owned the TV tho
Calm down. We already know that clarity isn't your strong suit.

the fact that both elements are heating would leave me to believe that they are both working independantly
If they're both working, be it independently or otherwise, then why did you create this topic?

...and each will just spit back a low resistance when measured...why is that such a huge assumption?
Any assumption is huge, and it's the fact that you're prepared to assume some things that are relevant and incredibly easy and quick to measure that sustains my belief that you were never a qualified engineer in any field.
 

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