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teaboyjim
I've always liked the idea of a day rate because a day rate can be more versatile
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And once you've agreed the spec with the builder make sure you keep to it (so no mid-job 'can you just do this' stuff) and the builder keeps to it ('bco says we only need 70mm insulation'. 'Really? Well you quoted for 100mm so thats what you're installing')
I've never started a job on day rate.
When cheapskates offered it my answer was always "Labourers work on day rates"
I always gave full quotes and stick to it.
Any extras the customer would come up with, would be priced and done at the end if possible.
No surprises.
Traders working on day rates are piiss takers.
When cheapskates offered it my answer was always "Labourers work on day rates"
I always gave full quotes and stick to it.
Any extras the customer would come up with, would be priced and done at the end if possible.
No surprises.
Traders working on day rates are piiss takers.
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I don't see how the householder is ever in a good position. Day rate: trader takes the p*ss. Job rate : lay-man householder is meant to check that corners aren't being cut (as is evidenced in half the posts on this forum)
Aye. The only way to be a winner is find trades who doesn't rip the p*ss and stick with them. They're not usually the cheapest but not usually the dearest either.
One place where a day rate is quite handy is when you're getting quotes for a job- so you'll have materials and labour broken down separately. Not for haggling, more for when you do realise you've had a rush of sh*t to the brain when you specced the scheme and need an extra day or 2's work for an addon, gives you a guide as to what its going to cost. In a previous life (working for a council) any tenders received were deemed based on the contractors paying JIB rates, one essential that had to be listed on the quote was what markup the contractor was applying to wages.
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teaboyjim
I think agree 100% agree!
Can you recall what the markup that the contractors were using
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teaboyjim
How usual is it for builders/tradesman to cut corners if they're on priced work?
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Yep. Only way to find them- get friendly with local builders merchants, get friendly with BCO (they know who the chancers are), keep an eye out round your area for neighbours having work done, chat them up to find out how it went/is going- if they're pleased with the result (in normal times) they'll quite likely drag you in to admire & tell you how reasonable it was (you have to take their price info a bit cautiously, many will lowball it to make themselves look like a master haggler). If whatever you are doing can be done in discrete chunks it can work quite well to get your builder to do a smaller (3 -5k) chunk first & see how it goes. Be careful with this- some jobs will get much more expensive if you split them into bits.
Joint Industry Board- used to set rates for electricians. And yes that's exactly what it looked like- 50% sounded outrageous but you needed 27% just to cover employers NI and holiday pay, have to add another few % now for the pension sketch.
Usually (for larger contracts) there's on costs as well (which is a markup applied to the whole thing- wages, materials, drawing fees, transport, the lot- this to pay the admin overhead that the contractor will incur (which again at first sight sounds a bit ripoff but it isn't, if you've got 30 or 40 working for you you won't have time to be on the tools yourself, you'll be busy keeping an eye on what they are doing, chasing new work, pricing and scheduling, all manner of stuff plus someone has to look after VAT, invoicing, HR, payroll, CPD, any scheme memberships that are required, all the rest of the admin stuff
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teaboyjim
Have you known people to do this before?
I suppose for our species it really matters to us what others think..lolThat's a good idea!
At this level things start to get complex and mistakes can be costly
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I always factored in lost days messing about with cock ups when quoting.
99% of the time we finished earlier than expected.
I know builders who ho around claiming that they can build an extension in 2 weeks all in and incidentally only give estimates rather than quotes.
When the fish is on the hook, the start milking the cow...
Now just picture that in your mind...
When I worked in the trade years ago the only time we did day rates were:
a. when we had no work and the boss farmed us out to other builders,
b. when we were on a priced job and the client wanted extras that the boss hadn't priced for, eg "can you build me a fence round my new extension?"
c. when it was work/materials we weren't familiar with but the client still wanted us to do it - boss passed the risk to them.
From my point of view as a labourer I used to get an hour for lunch instead of the usual half an hour but no early finishes - even if it meant pushing a brush around at the end of the day.
However, what we did was just old fashioned building work as a father and son business and we didn't make a fast buck off anybody. I'm not sure how you'd get on nowadays with materials, hire costs, contractors with fancy pick-up trucks, mobile phones and three pages of risk assessment before they get their boots muddy - all at your expense.
I presume you're doing research for some sort of thesis?
a. when we had no work and the boss farmed us out to other builders,
b. when we were on a priced job and the client wanted extras that the boss hadn't priced for, eg "can you build me a fence round my new extension?"
c. when it was work/materials we weren't familiar with but the client still wanted us to do it - boss passed the risk to them.
From my point of view as a labourer I used to get an hour for lunch instead of the usual half an hour but no early finishes - even if it meant pushing a brush around at the end of the day.
However, what we did was just old fashioned building work as a father and son business and we didn't make a fast buck off anybody. I'm not sure how you'd get on nowadays with materials, hire costs, contractors with fancy pick-up trucks, mobile phones and three pages of risk assessment before they get their boots muddy - all at your expense.
I presume you're doing research for some sort of thesis?
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teaboyjim
No I'm not doing any kind of thesis. The father and son business you describe sound ideal
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Aye, the 'firm' i use regularly is one bloke and the boy Jack, if he charges everyone else the same as he charges me he'll be on a comfortable living, no bling but no catfood sandwiches either. It may not hurt that I've known his (now) wife for about 35 years, long before he appeared (she did a Shirley Robinson, went on holiday and brought him back).
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teaboyjim
I've heard builders and tradesman say that they reduce their rates for customers they like
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