1 Gang to 2 Gang with no Neutral

[Mindzai]

Hi

I would like to add some wall lights in my living room.

I checked behind my existing 1 gang dimmer and found 2 red cables, 1 in common and 1 in L1, plus an E connected to the metal backbox.

The wall lights I have require L, N & E.

Obviously this is a problem for me because I have no means of connecting the N behind the socket. Is there anything I can do about this?

One option I have (but I suspect it would be a bad thing to do) is spur the N from the ring main - is this acceptable?

Thanks for any help

 

[Adam_151]

One option I have (but I suspect it would be a bad thing to do) is spur the N from the ring main - is this acceptable?

No, No, No, you must never do this!

This is called a borrowed neutral, and its against regulations, and potentially quite dangerous (if someone pulls the fuse for the ring final circuit and procedes to disconnect it from the DB, but the lighting circuit is still on, then it is quite likely they'll receive a shock from the neutral conductor!)

 

[6strings]

There's a great diagram of a typical lighting circuit at the top of the FAQ. The wire marked 'switched live' on that diagram is usually red, as you have seen. This is because the switch interrupts the live cable, so there is no neutral connection in the switch itself. You will usually find the neutral cable in a junction box in the roof or floor space above the switch. Or the wires may all meet up in the ceiling rose, in which case you might consider installing a junction box.

You may want to check up on the legal implications of doing this work yourself. For instance, it may need to be inspected and certified by an electrician before you can sell the house.

 

[Mindzai]

No, No, No, you must never do this!

This is called a borrowed neutral, and its against regulations, and potentially quite dangerous (if someone pulls the fuse for the ring final circuit and procedes to disconnect it from the DB, but the lighting circuit is still on, then it is quite likely they'll receive a shock from the neutral conductor!)

Thanks, this was exactly why I suspected it would be a bad idea!

There's a great diagram of a typical lighting circuit at the top of the FAQ. The wire marked 'switched live' on that diagram is usually red, as you have seen. This is because the switch interrupts the live cable, so there is no neutral connection in the switch itself. You will usually find the neutral cable in a junction box in the roof or floor space above the switch. Or the wires may all meet up in the ceiling rose, in which case you might consider installing a junction box.

You may want to check up on the legal implications of doing this work yourself. For instance, it may need to be inspected and certified by an electrician before you can sell the house.

Thanks - I have a N going to the ceiling rose of the main light in the room, but I live in a ground floor flat and the ceiling is concrete so I really have no access to this wiring aside from at the rose itself. I'm reluctant to take a N from the rose because it would be a fair bit of hassle chasing out the ceiling and walls, especially as I just plastered them last weekend!

However the only other option I have is a nearby 2 way switch. However I don't know if the wires going into it are useable N or not. The following is a diagram of the back of the switch in case anyone can help me out here - I'm guessing these black wires are really switched live masquerading as neutral but I live in hope:

Thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it!

 

[MANDATE]

You are quite right, those black wires are not neutrals. A neutral wire is after the 'load' . A simple switch is not a 'load' The wires in the 'coms' are lives and the others are switched lives.

 

[Mindzai]

You are quite right, those black wires are not neutrals. A neutral wire is after the 'load' . A simple switch is not a 'load' The wires in the 'coms' are lives and the others are switched lives.

I see, thanks.

Looks like my only real option then is taking a N from the ceiling rose and chasing out my ceiling and newly plastered wall

 

[securespark]

You can't make an omlette......

 

[aptsys]

...without eggs?

 

[plugwash]

Looks like my only real option then is taking a N from the ceiling rose and chasing out my ceiling and newly plastered wall

Depending on how the cable is installed you may be able to replace it with 3+E by pulling through with little damage (at minimum you will probably need a hole at the top of the wall). This will give you the extra conductor you need.