"GeorgeCooke" has made the very same assertion (again, without evidence) in the IET forum, so maybe that proves that it is true
Kind Regards, John
16amp blue socket wired off a socket spur
- Thread starter mic2876uk
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Kind Regards, John
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This 'common sense' has nothing to do with the piece of equipment plugged into the socket. I have many of these sort of things:
And it is quite common for one 16A socket to have a selection of them feeding cables that meander around a site powering temp lighting/power. Having 50 sockets on such a system is not uncommon with a possible current draw of hundreds of amps.
2 questions:
1) If that originating socket is sitting on your 40A OPD what is there to prevent 60A being drawn via the socket?
2) If the OPD is only there to protect the cable, should I be expected to use 6mm² cable in 16A connectors for my leads, or for that matter 16mm² in case it's a 63A OPD, and to follow that up have you ever tried fitting such cables into a 16A CEEForm plug or socket?
Now many would not think of checking the OPD rating when using these services when they turn up at a venue with CEEForm sockets and will happily add in their splitters until everything is plugged up.
So get right back to OP, such a socket provided for consumer use surely needs to be adequately protected against such ignorance.
EDIT: Apologies I thought this was in the concurrent thread about sockets in a 'public'area.
However the reasoning is not out of place in this thread for the welder.
My advice to this OP is to fit your 2 or 3 sockets using a single radial of 2.5mm² cable with a 20A MCB.
Well, in the last of those, it looks as if the 4 '13A' outlets are protected by a single 13A fuse, so I won't bother with that one. As for the others, what is your concern - just about the current literally flowing through the connector (i.e. plug/socket)? Other than that, as I said, I can't see the difference from three adjacent double BS1363 sockets on a circuit - which, again could load that point in the ('40A') circuit by 60A or more
You've moved the goalposts a bit. In the OP's case, we are (presumably) talking about 'fixed wiring', so the rating of the OPD is known to the designer, and (both in terms of common sense and regs) the CSA of that fixed wiring would be chosen by the designer to be appropriate to the OPD.
However, I take your point in relation to plugged-in 'leads' - which I suppose is an argument for not having, say, any 16A outlets which are not protected by a 16A OPD, since otherwise 'the lead' (or its designer/manufacturer) does not know what CSA it needs to have.
Kind Regards, John
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I cannot produce documented proof but I do recall that the GPO did limit 13 amp plugs to a maximum load of 9 amps ( or was it 8 amps ) in several of the locations where I worked alongside GPO staff, ( interfacing telephone systems to radio paging systems 1972-1984). How widespread this was I do not know. Where equipment required more than 2 kW from a single socket then provided the plug was an approved make ( MK ) an exemption could be agreed.
Nope still here. Tbh I did stop reading after page 1 and carried on with my first fix it was only when I stopped I realised things had digressed somewhat although this isn't my first time posting in the electrics section of this forum so I'm not surprised.Jeez, all the guy wanted to do was fit 2 sockets for his welder and he got a 6 page discussion, I bet he ran away after page 1
Unless it wasn't clear garage is being built at the moment and now I'm on to first fix electrics. I don't even own a welder nor have I ever welded (I want to learn) but as I'm doing first fix I want to try and cover all eventualities before I dry line it.
If anyone is interested in the build thread.
https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/garage-self-build.532254/
Ah. Not clear from your first post. I supposed that the ring main was in the house!
Fairly easy answer then. Just run a 2.5mm² (or 4mm² if you fancy) radial to your 16A socket positions. That will cover for the future.
Of course, new circuits, new Cu. This is all notifiable work, so you should have a registered electrician designing and installing this!
I'm going down the 3rd party approval route however the guy I used when I rewired the house is no longer doing it.
But as long as I get it inspected before the plaster goes on whoever does the 3rd party approval can still check cable routes and if required I can make any modifications.
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"GeorgeCooke" has made the very same assertion (again, without evidence) in the IET forum, so maybe that proves that it is true
And someone else on post #5 here, https://community.screwfix.com/threads/oven-hob-cable-rating.226207/#post-1820008, along with another often claimed fact.
No I haven't moved the goalposts, all the way through I've been saying an unfused socket/plug system should be protected, especially against the untrained user.
As it happens, I know of several situations where multiple 16A sockets are protected by 32A MCB, one point in case being a 32A feeding a 32A 3ph socket and due to the nuber of times they've been required 3x 16A 1ph [and 3x 13A which I don't have an issue with] have been added. Being a responsible operator I have the means to protect my temporary installations with 2p MCB at my source but I wouldn't expect joe to have the knowledge or the additional kit to make those actions or decisions.
I had seen the last reply on page 1 and felt you had gleaned the required information. Otherwise I would have tried to migrate the following discussions to a different thread.
Fair enough - but, as I keep saying, you appear to be regarding the role of the OPD as being something beyond protection of the cable.
If, as appears to be the case with the OP, we are talking about 'fixed wiring' [from the OPD to socket(s)], then the designer can ensure that the cable [from the OPD to socket(s)] is adequately protected by the OPD. You seem to be thinking/talking about an additional role to that - in 'protecting' (limiting the current than can flow through) individual things plugged into the socket.
Kind Regards, John
Quite so - but, as we all know, these three 'people' (and maybe more!) are all the same person
The style and 'pet topics' are far too recognisable for it to be otherwise!Kind Regards, John
If that's all true, the interesting thing is the apparent implication that they did not believe that 'non-approved makes' were not compliant with BS1363-1 - which requires, amongst other things, that they pass the prescribed temperature rise test with a continuous current of 14A.
Kind Regards, John
And extra interesting here.Quite so - but, as we all know, these three 'people' (and maybe more!) are all the same person
Kind Regards, John
https://www2.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=104538&highlight_key=y
This makes the forum searching even more fun!
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