2 phases at install - which section of regs deals with this?

[sparkybird]

Hi everyone

Been looking through the book, but a bit stumped. I'm sure that there must be a section on dealing with this as I seem to recall safety stuff about keeping phases separate (415V instead of 240V??), and prob more

Been a long day, can anyone point me in the right direction?

BTW its for a future possible install, domestic but with large power demand which will no doubt require second phase

Thanks in advance

SB

PS Adam 151 - come to my rescue! How are you BTW?

 

[RF Lighting]

AFAIK, there is actually nothing specific in the regs regarding keeping phases seperate.

There used to be a reg years ago which specified a distance between sockets / accessories on different phases, but that is no longer the case.

I think the only thing you need to do is affix a warning notice at any accessories which have more than a single phase supplying it.

Is there something going on between you and Adam that we ought to know about?

 

[disinfo]

I went to a server room recently that had sockets on different phases literally butted up to each other.

To make matters worse, plugged into the sockets were two UPS's which were stacked on top of each other.

 

[RF Lighting]

Whats wrong with that?

I recently saw a red CEEform socket in a server room.

The phases were literally within a 1/4 of an inch of each other

 

[disinfo]

It was only really a problem for me because the big switch at the dis board didnt make anything turn off.

Took a while to find the other dis board, which made lots of "other things" go off.

2330 Starts in September woohoo!

 

[jockspark]

hi socket in the same room had to be on the same
phase.
where more than one phase in a grid switch had to be segregated.
14th and possibly 15th edition

 

[securespark]

There used to be a reg years ago which specified a distance between sockets / accessories on different phases, but that is no longer the case.

I discussed this very point with another spark & our mutual client the other day.

I was arguing that the "2 phases within arm's reach" regulation no longer applied, but could not back it up with a reference, the other guy insisted it was still in force, but could not back it up, either!

It would be really helpful if you could tell me when this changed.

 

[tSpark]

Untitled

• tSpark
• 21 Apr 2009
• 1

can only find 514.10.1 about securing a notice like so

 

[Spark123]

Think there's a reg about placing a label where there is more than nominal 230v between accessories where it wouldn't normally be expected, probably the one tSpark is talking about.
I think it is fair to say we'd expect 400v at a red 3 phase socket

 

[jockspark]

14th edition sockets in the same room reg A20
seregated phases regs A17,A18 and A19
page 20

 

[RF Lighting]

There used to be a reg years ago which specified a distance between sockets / accessories on different phases, but that is no longer the case.

I discussed this very point with another spark & our mutual client the other day.

I was arguing that the "2 phases within arm's reach" regulation no longer applied, but could not back it up with a reference, the other guy insisted it was still in force, but could not back it up, either!

It would be really helpful if you could tell me when this changed.

I'm not sure of an exact date / regs edition, but it was certainly the case when my first boss served his time (he started his 7 year apprenticeship 40 odd years ago), and is not any more. ( I mean the reg, not my boss who is alive and well )

Have you asked the other electrician to show you where it specifies this in the current edition of the regs?

 

[sparkybird]

Thanks for all the speedy replies, folks.

No sockets will have more than one phase supplying - second phase is primarly for the new kitchen (with lots of appliances) on sep DB as most of the other phase is taken up with the sauna, motorized swimming pool, other lights/power. Hey, if only all my clients were like this!

I think it was the 'sockets in one room on same phase' that I was thinking of, but seems like this has been superceeded. I'll take a meander through the regs when I'm not so tired out!

RF - nothing going on, but anyone who knows his way round the Regs like Adam does gets my vote! (Just don't tell Mr Sparkybird who wouldbe hard pushed to change a plug!)

 

[RF Lighting]

Although there is no reg for it, I'd still consider it good practice to keep the sockets in each room / area / floor of the house on the same phase (depending on layout etc)

Lighting is not so much of an issue, but if you can keep each switch / room on a single phase, that would get the thumbs up from me.

 

[securespark]

You're right jock. 'Cept mine is P19!

15th Ed. says:

514-4. Every item of equipment or enclosure within which a voltage exceeding 250 volts exists, and where the presence of such a voltage would not normally be expected, shall be so arranged that before access is gained to live parts, a warning of the maximum voltage present is clearly visible.

Where terminals or other fixed live parts between which a voltage exceeding 250 volts exists are housed in separate enclosures or items of eqipment which, although separated, can be reached simultaneously by a person, a notice shall be placed in such a position that anyone gaining access to live parts is warned of the maximum voltage which exists between those parts.

514-10-01 in the yellow 16th Ed. says much the same.

And, indeed, as tSpark says, 514.10.1 says the same in the 17th.

So in a way, the guy I was arguing with was right...

 

[jockspark]

hi secure i have the updated 14th edition




reprinted in metric units
incorporating amendments 1970