22mm gas feed necessary?

[seasickstevie]

Friend of mine has had her combi boiler replaced. However, after the job was just about complete, the contractor announced that she would also have to pay for a 22m gas pipe to be installed (all the way from front of house to back bedroom).

This was a cost she hadn't been informed about or budgeted for. I (and she) understand completely that the manufacturer no doubt specifies a certain gas pressure and delivery needed, but he has said that if it's not done, it will be 'illegal'.

To me, this sounds a bit of a ploy to get her to agree to having it done and let's just say, he's not the most popular tradesman around just now.

I get the feeling that he thought if he'd priced for installing the larger gas pipe at the beginning, it would have all been too expensive and he mightn't have got the job.

Could this really be described as 'illegal'?

 

[Agile]

I am so sorry that she has been conned by this installer.

The installation will not meet the requirements of the manufacturer. Or the British standard which specifies a maximum pressure loss of 1.0 mbar.

I would refuse to pay any more than was agreed and would expect him to upgrade the gas supply at no extra cost and not pay any more than the cost of the boiler itself until that has been done.

Any competent installer will recognise when an existing gas supply is likely to be inadequate and include the cost of upgrading in the original quote.

As you have guessed though, honest installers may not get the job when they quote to do the job properly! Customers often choose the cheapest and not the best.

Did he give a proper written quotation?

 

[Dan Robinson]

More selective twaddle:

I am so sorry that she has been conned by this installer

She has not been conned. You have no way of knowing that with the information provided




Ideally the installer would have warned the lady that a pipe upgrade may be required. If the boilers are comparable in inputs, and the old one's still working then he should have told her upfront. If the old boiler was not functioning and the gas pipe is hidden then it is not as clear cut.

 

[seasickstevie]

I don't believe the gas pipe was 'hidden'.

It's easy to see in the meter cupboard and in the bedroom that it's 15mm.

 

[Dan Robinson]

And length of the running? The number of bends? The condition of the last boiler?

As I said, ideally he should have mentioned it, but unless his estimate stipulates any necessary upgrades, then really this is a variation of costs.

A pain in the arse yes, but not a con as implied by Tony.

 

[DP]

Like Pin 5 says, it is difficult to establish if the pipe will discharge correct volume unless the whole gas line has been eyeballed. It is not unusual to have final connection in 15mm, main feed from the meter may we'll be 28mm, who knows

And another thing, I would like to see anyone who advocates 1mb drop to show me this criteria on a condensing boiler unless there are special test points fitted and said person can show he or she goes to that length

OP, you do not have to agree to bigger gas line, you just will not get the temperature rise expected if the boiler is a combi. Not only that, expect other gas appliances starved of pressure if and when boiler fires at max rate

 

[seasickstevie]

Thanks DP (and others). Yes I realise it won't get up to full temperature, although at this time of year it mightn't be a big problem. Could review the situation in the autumn maybe, when she might've saved up a couple of quid.

It was just the emphasis on it being 'illegal' that she (& I) objected to. Makes you feel she's being pressured into something that might not be totally essential.

 

[Phill Peck]

Bottom line is as pin5 points out it's down to how the quote was written.

Technically it is "illegal" but you'll not get arrested for it.

Does the quote state anything about the gas supply?

Without sounding too much like tony, the gas supply should have been inspected when the quote was done. If it was not all visible or couldn't be tested my quote would include information about that and that upgrades may be necessary.
I would allow for some upgrading in the quote if I wasn't sure or advise a rerun at that stage.
If the budget was tight(I suspect it was) perhaps the installer thought the supply would be adequate and so quoted accordingly. Again it should be in his quote

 

[seasickstevie]

I've not seen any written quote. May have been verbal only.
I'll ask her later if she gets back to me.

Thing is, she's one of these trusting people who doesn't expect to be 'done over'.

Can't help feeling the term 'illegal' is not technically correct. Just because something doesn't comply with manufacturer's instructions, or deviates from the regulation standards, the term 'illegal' I think is stretching things a bit.

 

[Phill Peck]

I had a job recently where all the visible pipe was 22mm but a 6m section in the middle was 15mm.

Didn't know that till we tested the boiler. Fortunately the quote had this outlined.

 

[Phill Peck]

I've not seen any written quote. May have been verbal only.
I'll ask her later if she gets back to me.

Thing is, she's one of these trusting people who doesn't expect to be 'done over'.

I don't think she's been done over (I could be wrong)

 

[gas112]

come on lads its as basic as it gets doing a combi change first thing you check is gas pipe size and you should be able to workout the route from meter and have a rough idea of how many elbows prob used .
i would say if no mention of it before hand guy is trying it on to get more money for doing the job how it should have been done correctly in first place .
I would report it to gas safe and they will come inspect and serve an improvement notice on him forcing him to upgrade at no cost to owner.
Too many fekers out there doing it taking money away from guys who get it right first and everytime

 

[seasickstevie]

... its as basic as it gets doing a combi change first thing you check is gas pipe size and you should be able to workout the route from meter and have a rough idea of how many elbows prob used.

... guy is trying it on to get more money for doing the job how it should have been done correctly in first place.

That's precisely my thought.

 

[gas112]

Tell him your phoning gassafe for a free inspection of the work and see if his tune changes if not just phone them.
None of us are perfect and do miss the occasional thing on a job but the guys i know 99% would not dream of charging for something they had missed .
And i dont really class undersized gas in this

 

[fezster]

Unless his original quote had wording to the effect that he could charge for something unforeseen, I don't see how he can not do this without compromising his gas safe registration. As a competent person, he cannot install a boiler which is "illegal". And if he installs it but does not commission it, then he has not fulfilled his end of the contract and cannot ask for payment for an incomplete job.

Whilst it's unfortunate for him that he has to do additional work which he was not expecting, as a competent person, this is surely something he should have foreseen and accounted for. To ask the customer to now pay for his mistake is not on.