4 way extension burnt and melted

[Gasmeter65]

Hi,
I have just been called out to check sockets after a 4 way extension burnt and melted. (It was down to the fish tank overflowing and shorting out).

When I checked the DB it didn't have any RCD protection to the circuits. I know it doesn't meet the regs, but from a safety aspect surely one has to be fitted. !!

The DB is a Tenby/Legrand so besides a new 17th edition DB which I know the client hasn't got the funds for at the mo, is the best option for them to have a 100A RCD between the meter & DB or change the main switch for a 100A RCD.

RCBO's will not fit due to space that that's not an option.

I know you can't put a price on life but some people will do without, so needs to be the safest / cheapest option, otherwise they will not get it done.

 

[sparkwright]

I've found space to fit RCBOs in Tenby/Legrand consumer units...

 

[RF Lighting]

When I checked the DB it didn't have any RCD protection to the circuits. I know it doesn't meet the regs, but from a safety aspect surely one has to be fitted. !!

Nope.

is the best option for them to have a 100A RCD between the meter & DB or change the main switch for a 100A RCD.

The best option is to leave the job to an electrician who actually knows what they're doing. Both your ideas will leave the installation non-compliant with wiring regs.

 

[Gasmeter65]

When I checked the DB it didn't have any RCD protection to the circuits. I know it doesn't meet the regs, but from a safety aspect surely one has to be fitted. !!

Nope.

is the best option for them to have a 100A RCD between the meter & DB or change the main switch for a 100A RCD.

The best option is to leave the job to an electrician who actually knows what they're doing. Both your ideas will leave the installation non-compliant with wiring regs.

Should've said 30mA RCD

 

[Gasmeter65]

I've found space to fit RCBOs in Tenby/Legrand consumer units...

Cheers

7ways x RCBO price's plus minor works, may as well change the DB.

Will get a price n measure up.

The 30mA RCD (Not 100A) was a short term option.

 

[OwainDIYer]

The VO ELCB in that link is MY picture which they have used without permission

You'll be sending them a hefty invoice for photographic copyright then...

 

[ericmark]

There is a problem where one improves a circuit but not to the point of being complaint. Also there is a problem where the installation does not comply to the 16th Edition.

There was no edition of BS7671 before the IEE 16th Edition. Also before BS7671:2008 it was BS7671:2001 and before that BS7671:1992 so going back to BS7672:1992 is the previous previous edition. So date of previous edition will depend on if going by IET numbers or BS numbers.

However if we look at the electrical safety council best-practice-guides they still refer to how to deal with lighting with no earth connection. which was only permitted up to 1966 which was the date of the 14th Edition.

The ESC give three options first is of course to correct to latest edition but failing that they say what they believe to be "appropriate remedy" and if you can do the appropriate remedy then you can fit warning labels and continue. If however the client will not agree to appropriate remedy then "Leave circuit disconnected or do not replace consumer unit is what they recommend.

OK they are talking about consumer unit replacement but it does show how one is allowed some lee way when dealing with old systems.

One problem with domestic is you must leave the house in an inhabitable condition or ensure they have alternative accommodation. So although in a factory or office you can just lock off the supply. In fact that is a requirement under the factories act although no guarantee you will keep your job if you do. With domestic you have to consider were you given permission to disconnect the supply and where will the occupants go.

So often it's down to a risk assessment and some common sense.

With the fish tank question then easy fit a RCD socket.

With the electrical installation condition report there is no longer a code 4. We have three codes C1, C2, and C3. Again we follow BestPracticeGuide4 which lists the codes and when to give them.

Page 15 covers the RCD with no RCD for outside circuits being C3 and no RCD to shower being C2 but it does not say you should code where it would have complied with BS7671:2001 which as I said at start was the previous edition.

I do not totally agree with what the guides say but they are as the title says good guides as to action to take.

 

[ericmark]

The VO ELCB in that link is MY picture which they have used without permission

At last I have found one of my own and now have my own picture of a ELCB-v. We are told now in the photography club the rules have changed so near impossible to stop people stealing your pictures unless you include with the picture contact details. I use a water mark "GW7MGW" and since I am in the call book under that call sign I am traceable.

However since it says "Photo courtesy of RF lighting" on the best practice guide they can't really say they don't know who holds the copy-write.

 

[JohnW2]

I use a water mark "GW7MGW" and since I am in the call book under that call sign I am traceable.

You've thereby made yourself traceable by everyone in this forum - was that intentional. I have been careful not to mention my callsign

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

I am sure they can find me easy enough if they try. I am sure some where there is a link, and since I am building family tree can't really hide.

I do object when people want me to use Mothers maiden name as a security question. How daft with so many sites to trace your ancestors.

 

[JohnW2]

I am sure they can find me easy enough if they try. I am sure some where there is a link, and since I am building family tree can't really hide.

Fair enough - I just wanted to be sure that it wasn't an oversight - many people participating in forums are keen to preserve their anonymity!

Kind Regards, John

 

[viewer]

spin off alert..
The security answer doesn't have to be true for the "prove who you are before we let you in" question. A number of computer websites suggest using a false answer to questions like "Wife's middle name" as it prevents hackers easily building up a picture of your on line profile. Of course, if you forget the name you used it could be inconvenient and to avoid homicide your wife should know what you've done.

 

[JohnW2]

spin off alert.. The security answer doesn't have to be true for the "prove who you are before we let you in" question. A number of computer websites suggest using a false answer to questions like "Wife's middle name" as it prevents hackers easily building up a picture of your on line profile.

Indeed. I always use false answers for 'security questions' such as that, and I have a way of creating such false answers which makes them fairly easy to remember!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

When I checked the DB it didn't have any RCD protection to the circuits. I know it doesn't meet the regs, but from a safety aspect surely one has to be fitted. !!

Nope.

is the best option for them to have a 100A RCD between the meter & DB or change the main switch for a 100A RCD.

The best option is to leave the job to an electrician who actually knows what they're doing. Both your ideas will leave the installation non-compliant with wiring regs.

Should've said 30mA RCD

RF's advice and comments still apply.

 

[JohnW2]

How can a thread containing 14 posts (now 15, including this one) have only have had 2 'views'??

Kind Regards, John