6181Y

[RMS]

Come on guys, lets not shoot a person down for approaching the forum for help.

Vibe, the tails you are referring to consist of insulation, this insulation is clearly supplemented by an additional layer of insulation so technically they are double insulated as the manufacturer claims it to be.

 

[vibrobullit407]

I have taken time to thank all the useful posts given in this thread. I appreciate the real answers given.

Nice to see that not every one is judgmental!

 

[JohnW2]

.... why comment on it unless you can give an answer?

You haven't really explained what sort of answer you want. If you want an engineering answer, then it's that an outer PVC sheath provides both (a modest degree of) mechanical protection and (a high degree of) additional electrical insulation to the underlying insulated conductor. It is therefore both 'double insulated' and 'sleeved', and you can choose whatever word(s) you like the best.

If you want to know what manufacturers, wholesalers and retailers call it, you don't have to look far to see both forms of words used.

If you want to know what words to use so that other electricians understand what you're talking about, then just toss a coin.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[starspark]

Why haven't you thanked riveralt, johnw2 and myself then?
We all gave useful posts on our thoughts.

 

[JohnW2]

One way of looking at this is that 'double insulated' is actually more informative - since it more-or-less fully defines what one is talking about (and it is implicit in the existance of secondary insulation is that at least some mechanical protection will be afforded to the underlying basic-insulated conductor). 'Sheathed and insulated' could theoretically refer to either an insulating or conductive sheath, and therefore does not define the cable as fully.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[vibrobullit407]

Im not saying it doesnt OFFER any protection just that it is Insulation.

I think the difference is the grey sheath is insulation and not for mechanical protection hence double insulated.

I suppose you better learn how to say contradiction then!

John the answer I wanted was the proper wording for what I thought insulated and sheathed 6181Y cable was. I think the post was self explanatory!

As said I have thanked every helpful post, not demeaning and egotistic posts!

 

[JohnW2]

John the answer I wanted was the proper wording for what I thought insulated and sheathed 6181Y cable was. I think the post was self explanatory!

Well, I'm afraid it wasn't. What do you mean by 'proper'? A 'proper' engineering description, 'proper' in the sense of what is written in the manufacturer's catalogue, or on the box in which it comes, 'proper' in the sense that it enables you to communicate your meaning to colleagues, 'proper' in the sense that it's what the IEE/IET call it in thir publications, or what?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[vibrobullit407]

One way of looking at this is that 'double insulated' is actually more informative - since it more-or-less fully defines what one is talking about (and it is implicit in the existance of secondary insulation is that at least some mechanical protection will be afforded to the underlying basic-insulated conductor). 'Sheathed and insulated' could theoretically refer to either an insulating or conductive sheath, and therefore does not define the cable as fully.

Kind Regards, John.

Thank you John, not so hard to give an informative and non judgmental answer is it. That after all is all I was after!!!

I'll think twice before I start another thread due to the judgmental opinions to a valid question. At least BAS has substance for his tirades due to safety reasons!

 

[vibrobullit407]

John the answer I wanted was the proper wording for what I thought insulated and sheathed 6181Y cable was. I think the post was self explanatory!

Well, I'm afraid it wasn't. What do you mean by 'proper'? A 'proper' engineering description, 'proper' in the sense of what is written in the manufacturer's catalogue, or on the box in which it comes, 'proper' in the sense that it enables you to communicate your meaning to colleagues, 'proper' in the sense that it's what the IEE/IET call it in thir publications, or what?

Kind Regards, John.

The wording and the explanation from differing people i,e a discussion. Is 6181Y called differing things in these publications? This is a forum for debate and that is what I was after when I asked;

What do people class 6181Y cable as i.e double insulated or insulated and sheathed cable?

 

[riveralt]

The wording and the explanation from differing people i,e a discussion. Is 6181Y called differing things in these publications? This is a forum for debate and that is what I was after when I asked;

What do people class 6181Y cable as i.e double insulated or insulated and sheathed cable?

Which is exactly what you got - different people's opinions.
The problem was/is your own opinionated views seem to take precedent over everything that others have said - the net result of that is terse responses to your sometimes bombastic questions and answers.

 

[JohnW2]

Thank you John, not so hard to give an informative and non judgmental answer is it. That after all is all I was after!!!

Yes, I know it was the answer you were after, so I thought I'd give it to you to make you feel good.

Admittedly, this was a very trivial issue/question, so it doesn't matter, but it's a very common phenomenon to see people coming to forums like this to ask a question, then moaning and criticising (or worse) every answer they get until, eventually, someone gives them the answer they wanted to get (even if, in relation to more serious matters, it's an incorrect or even dangerous answer). However, telling them what they want to be told is usually a way of making them feel good, and certainly can stop the moaning

Kind Regards, John.

 

[vibrobullit407]

Thank you John, not so hard to give an informative and non judgmental answer is it. That after all is all I was after!!!

Yes, I know it was the answer you were after, so I thought I'd give it to you to make you feel good.

Admittedly, this was a very trivial issue/question, so it doesn't matter, but it's a very common phenomenon to see people coming to forums like this to ask a question, then moaning and criticising (or worse) every answer they get until, eventually, someone gives them the answer they wanted to get (even if, in relation to more serious matters, it's an incorrect or even dangerous answer). However, telling them what they want to be told is usually a way of making them feel good, and certainly can stop the moaning

Kind Regards, John.

I think that you misunderstand my thinking on this. The most common answer I received was actually in contrast to what I believed to be true and I am happy with that. I am not moaning about the the topical answers I received I am moaning about the dismissive posts. I am now aware that it is more common to call this cable double insulated rather than insulated and sheathed and will change my vocab to suit this. I have also looked on the IET forum where this answer was debated in a sensible none judgmental manner and came out with the same conclusion. so don't think because some one giving an alternative answer to my own makes me argumentative, it doesn't. people dismissing my questions as "sad" and unimportant will inevitably put my back up. This is an electrical forum and I asked an electrical question as I was unaware that my terminology was wrong. A simple answer and explanation would have sufficed instead of the bickering about the importance of why I asked the question!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

http://www.cable-world.co.uk/index....6181x&catid=919:fixed-wiring-cable&Itemid=105 :

6181Y 6181X Cable

CONSTRUCTION

Conductor: Stranded Plain Annealed Copper

Insulation: PVC (6181Y) or XLPE (6181X)

Sheath: PVC

 

[JohnW2]

I think that you misunderstand my thinking on this. The most common answer I received was actually in contrast to what I believed to be true and I am happy with that. ... I am now aware that it is more common to call this cable double insulated rather than insulated and sheathed and will change my vocab to suit this.

I know you keep dismissing it when I say so, but it really does depend upon the nature of the answer you want. I gave you the answer you appeared to want to hear, and you're probably right that, in a 'colloquial' sense, it may be more common to hear it being called 'double insulated'.

However, you asked for the 'proper' answer - and that's very different from 'common'/'colloquial'. Many would say the the most definitive and 'proper' answer about such things is that derived from the Wiring Regulations, a.k.a BS7671, as written by the IET - and you won't find them calling a cable 'double insulated' (the only 'double insulated' things the regs recognise are things like appliances, light fittings, accessories and enclosures) - in the regs, the cable we're talking about will always be called 'insulated and sheathed' (even though, as I wrote, that is not as full/good description as 'double insulated'). So,as I said, you have to decide what sort if 'proper' you want.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[starspark]

I think that you misunderstand my thinking on this. The most common answer I received was actually in contrast to what I believed to be true and I am happy with that. I am not moaning about the the topical answers I received I am moaning about the dismissive posts. I am now aware that it is more common to call this cable double insulated rather than insulated and sheathed and will change my vocab to suit this. I have also looked on the IET forum where this answer was debated in a sensible none judgmental manner and came out with the same conclusion. so don't think because some one giving an alternative answer to my own makes me argumentative, it doesn't. people dismissing my questions as "sad" and unimportant will inevitably put my back up. This is an electrical forum and I asked an electrical question as I was unaware that my terminology was wrong. A simple answer and explanation would have sufficed instead of the bickering about the importance of why I asked the question!

So after all this you do agree with me after all then????
You dont need to get my other posts removed either because you have spat the dummy and dont like the responses you were getting.
If you cant take a joke and a bit of banter then your definitely in the wrong trade (if you are indeed an electrician?) and also the wrong forum.