8m by 5m outbuilding under PD

[cjard]

Noseall, to be fair to u587162, he didn't actually link the 40m2 to the concept of leaving PD and entering the realm of full planning, though he did incorrectly attribute building footprint to boundary distance, and in turn linked this to full planning. Big all was the first to talk about footprints and full planning requirements

As with many threads here there is the odd bit of incorrect information posted in response to a query, and even though it's since been corrected, it then tends to get misattributed / fed back into the conversation, sadly to its detriment..

 

[u587162]

You discussed area as though it was significant, and had a bearing on the distance to the boundary. It doesn't, as it's the height in that case that is significant, but it's more that he distance to boundary drives the height. If you want your building to be 2.5m high at the eaves then it must be set 2m away from the boundary. As it happens you cannot erect your building under PD as the following requirements cannot all coexist:

5m wide (your spec)
45 degree roof pitch (your spec)
2.5m eaves (your spec)
4m at roof apex (PD limit that is breached)

Correct and apologies if the mentioning of the area size caused confusion. I was simply stating the facts so its clear to all. I've clarified the original question slightly.
In summary, the issue (or my question) is not whether the overall size is allowed under PD, because I know it is given the large size of the garden and the <50% rule that Tony mentioned.

I guess my question should, in a roundabout way, be, 1) how much further away should the actual wall be from the boundary if this outbuilding is going to have eaves at the 2.5m height level and have a dual pitched roof, 2) what is the typical width of the horiztonal bit where the wall is to the underside of the roof (hence adding to the distance taking it closer to the boundary) and 3) what is a suggested roof pitch degree that I should outline?

I appreciate your help, I'm just a homeowner and not a architect so apologies if I am asking this the wrong way but hopefully you understand what I am trying to ask.

Thx.

 

[tony1851]

1) the height of the eaves should not be >2.5m, regardless of how close to the boundary the structure is (any projection of the eaves is usually ignored - it's the distance to the face of the wall that matters).

2) if any part of the structure is within 2m of the boundary, no part of the structure should be more than 2.5m high.

3) for a dual-pitch roof, the maximum height allowed to the ridge is 4m. But to achieve this, all parts of the structure must be at least 2m from the boundary.
(assuming you are > 2m from the boundary and want to have a 4m ridge-height, the pitch would depend on the width of the building).

Confused???

Aren't we all! - the rules in the GPDO are convoluted and difficult to follow.

 

[Nakajo]

Finally, some sanity. And, because of the size of the building, you would need Building Regs Approval - regardless of its proximity to any boundary.

 

[u587162]

Yes I'm aware it needs building regs. Thx.

 

[Footsoldier888]

Just in case this does apply to the OP, how does PD work when other development has been completed under PD???

Do you have a total allowance, or does a single use of it use up PD rights???

To give an example, if you build a single storey rear extension under PD, can you still build an outbuilding provided you meet the 50% curtilage rule???

 

[nickjb]

Just in case this does apply to the OP, how does PD work when other development has been completed under PD???

Do you have a total allowance, or does a single use of it use up PD rights???

To give an example, if you build a single storey rear extension under PD, can you still build an outbuilding provided you meet the 50% curtilage rule???

From the planning portal link I posted:

• No more than half the area of land around the "original house"* would be covered by additions or other buildings.

*The term "original house" means the house as it was first built or as it stood on 1 July 1948 (if it was built before that date). Although you may not have built an extension to the house, a previous owner may have done so.

That means every addition to the 'original' house counts to your 50%

 

[RichA]

If I have understood all the above, if you want:

• 45 deg pitch,
• 2.5m at eaves,
• 4.0m at apex, then
• width or your extension will be 3.0m

 

[u587162]

If I have understood all the above, if you want:

• 45 deg pitch,
• 2.5m at eaves,
• 4.0m at apex, then
• width or your extension will be 3.0m

I'm really trying to reverse engineer it.
I know for a fact that the dimensions will be 8m long against the fence line boundary and 5m deep coming away from the boundary into my garden (allowing for an additional 2m distance between the start of the wall and the fence). I want to keep to a decent height ceiling so 2.5m at the eaves would be fine. The maximum height allowed would be 4m, but of course if I can get it under that height, then all the better so neighbours dont complain.

The bit I am trying to establish is what degree pitch would I need to keep it a good overall height level much below 4m if possible. This is more a math and trigonometry question that I cant answer!

 

[big-all]

5m at 45 would add 2.5m
5m at 22.5 would add 1.25m so reverse engineered allowing for roof thickness around 2.6m from the ground it covers assuming a timber floor and joists off say 200mm would be 2.4 ish

 

[u587162]

Here's something I prepared earlier....

Going by Tony's earlier helpful comments, it seems that I would need to move the outbuilding further away from the boundary line in order to allow for the underside of the room. How much should I allow for that, another 0.5m?

Is there such a thing as a right degree pitch for the size of outbuilding I am building?

 

[big-all]

and the gutter
is it your fence ??
if so then the boundary is the other side off the fence assuming its fully on your land

 

[u587162]

wow this becomes more and more complicated. Yes, it is my fence line, although to make sure I dont fall foul, I might just move the whole bloody thing more onto myside. What is usually the depth of the bit I have marked with the red arrows, fence side and what is it called - "Depth of eaves" or something else?

Builder is saying a minimum of 30 degree pitch is needed.

 

[Nakajo]

You don't need to allow for the eaves soffit in your calculations (unless that eaves soffit projects more than a metre!). From the information provided, the permutations would appear to be as follows, so take your pick...

 

[cjard]

Minimum roof pitch depends on what the tile manufacturer says it can be for your wind zone and headlap, not what your builder says. If he insists, use a roofer instead