access to live terminals?

[mattylad]

Hi, can y'all answer this for me.

Is it allowed to have exposed live terminals on an appliance as long as that appliance is pushed against a wall?
(not fixed to the wall, can be pulled out).

I know my answer but am seeking some clarification and hopefully for someone to reply with a standard or legal requirement they can detail?
Especially if it's also in BS7671 18th ed.

 

[bernardgreen]

No

Anything that can be at a dangerous potential must NOT be acccessible without the the need to use a tool to remove the protection of the terminals that are at a hazardous potential.

Pulling an apploance from the wall does not coumt as "using a tool to gain ccess".

Is it stipulated in the rules ?, Yes it probably is but I know not where .....

 

[JohnW2]

No ... Anything that can be at a dangerous potential must NOT be acccessible without the the need to use a tool to remove the protection of the terminals that are at a hazardous potential.

That all obviously makes very good sense, and is certainly what I would say. However ...

Pulling an apploance from the wall does not coumt as "using a tool to gain ccess". ... Is it stipulated in the rules ?, Yes it probably is but I know not where .....

I think you might have some difficulty in finding an explicit regulation, particularly given things like (same in both 17th & 18th eds of BS7671) ...

417.2.1 Obstacles shall prevent:
(i) unintentional bodily approach to live parts, and
(ii) unintentional contact with live parts during the operation of live equipment in normal service.
417.2.2 An obstacle may be removed without the use of a key or tool but shall be secured so as to prevent unintentional removal.

Whilst an appliance 'pushed up against a wall' may not be explicitly 'secured', one would think that its sheer weight would be enough top prevent 'unintentional removal', so perhaps within the spirit of 417.2.2 (although, in my opinion, still daft and dangerous) ?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Not sure on answer, but there are slightly diffrent rules for ordanary persons to instructed and skilled. The consumer unit is a good example, your not permitted to use a non type tested distrubution where ordanary persons are in control.

So your appliance in the home has to be type tested, and I can't see an appliance getting the type testing if you can gain access to terminals without a tool.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm pretty sure that the last time I fiddled with the works in a dishwasher the cabinet had no base, and by lying it on its side I could access electrical terminals.

 

[flameport]

Is it allowed to have exposed live terminals on an appliance

No.

Appliances are not covered by BS7671, so nothing in there is relevant.

What is relevant is The Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994
and in particular Regulation 5(1)
and
Schedule 3, 2(a) : Persons and domestic animals must be adequately protected against danger of physical injury or other harm which might be caused by electrical contact direct or indirect;

Exposed live terminals will not meet that requirement, even if the terminals are against a wall. A wall is not part of the appliance.

 

[SUNRAY]

No

Anything that can be at a dangerous potential must NOT be acccessible without the the need to use a tool to remove the protection of the terminals that are at a hazardous potential.

Pulling an apploance from the wall does not coumt as "using a tool to gain ccess".

Is it stipulated in the rules ?, Yes it probably is but I know not where .....

I suspect it's not in the rules as washing machines have no base plate and quite often have a PCB containing the motor controller in easy reach once it's laid on it's side.

Edit: I didn't read the whole thread before posting...

 

[big-all]

i would have thought no because exposed contacts can make contact with pipes or other metal behind or that can fall behind like metal cooking implements or tin foil

 

[Echo the husky]

Anything that can be at a dangerous potential must NOT be acccessible without the the need to use a tool to remove the protection of the terminals that are at a hazardous potential.

You're saying my tanning lamp is unsafe?

 

[mattylad]

Cheers Flameport, exactly what I have been saying.
Unfortunately ancient electricians and managers who know nowt about electrical safety think having exposed terminals on an appliance is OK because it is planned to be pushed against a wall!

Big all, your closer to the mark than you may think....

 

[bernardgreen]

You're saying my tanning lamp is unsafe?

An arc from the Ark

Thank heaven for cheap flights to sun drenched beaches.............

 

[big-all]

Big all, your closer to the mark than you may think....

you live next door

 

[JohnW2]

Appliances are not covered by BS7671, so nothing in there is relevant. ... What is relevant is The Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994 ....

The latter is obviously relevant but if, as seems to be the implication, the appliance is hard-wired, does not the connection between the installation's wiring and the appliance come within the scope of BS7671?

As for the appliance regulations, as a couple of people have said, it's quite common for live parts to be accessible if the appliance is laid on its side, and I have at least some like that. I had always assumed that this was acceptable (to the regulations) because it would not be in that position 'during normal operation' - but maybe that's not the case, and all the appliances in question are non-compliant with the regulations?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You're saying my tanning lamp is unsafe?

Depends on how safe a condition you think skin cancer is.

 

[mattylad]

John, yes the fitting of the cable between the appliance and the wall comes under BS7671 but the actual manufacture of the appliance does not. It mentions that at the very start of BS7671

Any appliance that has accessible live terminals during normal use is AFAIK non compliant unless they are covered by a basic insulation.
Pulling an appliance away from a wall to clean behind it is a normal use. I suspect that turning a washing machine upside down or on its back it not normal use.

EN60355 part 1 appears to me to say that a washing machine is not compliant if you can touch live terminals. I will be able to tell more once I have managed to get it printed.

My issue has been resolved now, a cover has been fabricated and fitted for me.
I do bet that the issue will come up again for me though.

Cheers all.