intermediate switching

[russellsmiler]

Can I seek some advice and Knowledge from good people here ??

I have a what seems a simple lighting scenario but are struggling to determine if i am able to switch it as I wish, haven't a diagram so hopefully can explain it .

I have uploaded a sketch of the switching configuration and want to know if its possible?? in the porch I need to introduce an intermediate switch for the "pink" light. the switch in this position needs to be a 3 gang and wish the switches in the porch to be metal clad surface mount.
I have no access to change anything in the utility as all walls and ceilings are finished
I suppose my main questions
are
1. is a 3 gang metal clad intermediate switch available?
2. If so can the switch wire from the light be terminated at the intermediate switch.
3.assuming a 3 gang intermediate switch plate is intermediate x3 can this be used for 2 way and single switching (as blue and as red on sketch) ??
Hope this makes sense to anyone reading and thanks in anticipation of any advice ,clarification offered.

Russell

 

[RandomGrinch]

Hi,

I had a similar issue and went for a grid system - although a double back box would be needed for a 3 gang grid switch (This is an advantage, as there are a lot of cables to squeeze into a single back box!)

https://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-grid-plus-3-module-grid-faceplate-grey/20918

https://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-grid-plus-3-module-grid-plate-grey/40024

https://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-4-module-metal-clad-metal-clad-switch-box-40mm/32511

https://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-grid-...witch-white-with-colour-matched-inserts/92060

And the beauty of the grid; you can choose whatever switch you want for the other positions

Connecting the switched live to the intermediate switch is possible, but will need further wiring modification:

http://www.lightwiring.co.uk/tag/intermediate-switch-wiring/

 

[SUNRAY]

Can I seek some advice and Knowledge from good people here ??

I have a what seems a simple lighting scenario but are struggling to determine if i am able to switch it as I wish, haven't a diagram so hopefully can explain it .

I have uploaded a sketch of the switching configuration and want to know if its possible?? in the porch I need to introduce an intermediate switch for the "pink" light. the switch in this position needs to be a 3 gang and wish the switches in the porch to be metal clad surface mount.
I have no access to change anything in the utility as all walls and ceilings are finished
I suppose my main questions
are
1. is a 3 gang metal clad intermediate switch available?
2. If so can the switch wire from the light be terminated at the intermediate switch.
3.assuming a 3 gang intermediate switch plate is intermediate x3 can this be used for 2 way and single switching (as blue and as red on sketch) ??
Hope this makes sense to anyone reading and thanks in anticipation of any advice ,clarification offered.

RussellView attachment 252043

Do you know where the pink switch wire runs? presumably to the outside door or utility room.
Are the utility and inner (new 3G) switches back to back? If so it may be easier to make the utility intermediate.

What wiring can you easily run?

Some pics of all 3 existing switches wiring will help.

 

[plugwash]

1. is a 3 gang metal clad intermediate switch available?

I've never seen one sold pre-assembled, but most manufacturers have a modular range (or sometimes more than one modular range) that can be used to build one.

Traditionally most modular ranges required a double backbox to fit 3 modules, If you are really tight for space Scholmore do a "minigrid" range that will get three switches onto a single backbox but if you have the room, a range that uses a double box is probably a better choice.

Something else to think about with metalclad accessories is they are really designed to be used with conduit, if you use them with surface cables you will need to think carefully about how you get the cables into the acessory while maintaining IP ratings. You need to maintain an IP rating of 4x (protection against solid objects over 1mm) on the top surface of an enclosure and 2x (protection against solid objects over 12mm) on the other surfaces. There is a good chance that a cable running through an open grommet will not achive this.

2. If so can the switch wire from the light be terminated at the intermediate switch.

Yes.

3.assuming a 3 gang intermediate switch plate is intermediate x3 can this be used for 2 way and single switching (as blue and as red on sketch) ??

They can, though since you are going to end up using a modular range anyway and there is quite a price premium for intermediate modules you may as well just buy the modules you need.

 

[EFLImpudence]

2. If so can the switch wire from the light be terminated at the intermediate switch.

Yes.

3.assuming a 3 gang intermediate switch plate is intermediate x3 can this be used for 2 way and single switching (as blue and as red on sketch) ??

Yes.

 

[SUNRAY]

What's already existing?

 

[russellsmiler]

ok thanks for your replies I am getting that I will probably go for a grid/modular system.
regarding what is already existing.
Feed from utility light to porch (future light position)
3 core from utility (pink) to proposed 3gang intermediate (pink)

They are not really back to back as shown, it is just diagrammatic, The porch area is ready for first fix
Tyhanks
Russell

 

[securespark]

https://www.scolmore.com/products/minigrid/

 

[SUNRAY]

ok thanks for your replies I am getting that I will probably go for a grid/modular system.
regarding what is already existing.
Feed from utility light to porch (future light position)
3 core from utility (pink) to proposed 3gang intermediate (pink)

They are not really back to back as shown, it is just diagrammatic, The porch area is ready for first fix
Tyhanks
Russell

What I'm thinking is the cost of the triple with intermediate is much, much, more than a double with intermediate, you could save a lot if it's possible to run the cables as either the green or the orange in this:

So from your description I believe you currently have this:

In which case it could potentially be easy to do the green option by joining to that pink, possibly in the back of the 3g switch:

Or the other alternative if the 2 switches are the same height, drill through the wall and run the orange option like this:

 

[SUNRAY]

I didn't show the 'pink' you've already run between the 2 switch positions.

It didn't occur to ask how that cable has been run, does it go up to ceiling level and back down? if so will it reach to the light?


Or even better, to the outer door switch??

 

[russellsmiler]

morning Sunray
Just having a look at your post with my early morning Cuppa!!
Have to spend today clearing up after the storm Arwen came through.... Plum tree down... coleman shelter in next county...Building materials all over the place...
Just want to say thankyou for the effort of looking at my dilemma... I will take a good look at your proposals later..

Thankyou..

 

[SUNRAY]

morning Sunray
Just having a look at your post with my early morning Cuppa!!
Have to spend today clearing up after the storm Arwen came through.... Plum tree down... coleman shelter in next county...Building materials all over the place...
Just want to say thankyou for the effort of looking at my dilemma... I will take a good look at your proposals later..

Thankyou..

You're very welcome, we're here to help. It seems I've spent my working life 'finding a solution' to something not quite standard.

Feel free to ask for any help with this, we'll get you through it.