Advice on 230v patio and wall lights

[WhydidIstart]

Hi, we're having a patio and some retaining walls put in and have been asked to choose some lights, we want some lights in the patio itself and some flush 'brick' ones in the walls and I'm looking for advice on what ones would be suitable, properly waterproof and last a long time please.

• Looking for warm white (not cold white or coloured as many LED ones seem to be)

• Not keen on the ones with built in LEDs as my experience of outdoor LED lights is they don't last that long?

• 'Brick' style ones with a ES lamp base are available which would allow flexible wattage/colour temp and easy bulb replacement which is good, but they mostly seem to be IP44 and don't look like they will stay dry over the years.

• Toolstation do this GU10 lamp http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Lig.../IP68+Deck+Light+Stainless+Steel+Bezel/p38006, so again flexible wattage/colour temp and easy bulb replacement. They are IP68 which seems better to me, but come attached to a junction box that the instructions say must be above ground.

SWA cable is going in and I'm wondering how it will all connect up, without having a junction box sticking up by every light? I've seen plenty of commercial and home installations of 230v lighting without visible junction boxes, can anyone shed any light on how this is done please?

Any help on suitable products would be greatly appreciated please.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Hi, we're having a patio and some retaining walls put in and have been asked to choose some lights, we want some lights in the patio itself and some flush 'brick' ones in the walls and I'm looking for advice on what ones would be suitable, properly waterproof and last a long time please.

Ones built into retaining walls can be a PITA to keep watertight - depending on how thick the wall is they may effectively be buried in the ground. Ones on the surface of the wall might be better in the long run. And more easily changed/replaced.

Toolstation do this GU10 lamp http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Lig.../IP68+Deck+Light+Stainless+Steel+Bezel/p38006, so again flexible wattage/colour temp and easy bulb replacement.

Never seen the point of those - they just shine a light up into the sky. If you just want decoration, think if you could have a channel in/around the patio in which you can lay a waterproof LED rope light covered in crushed glass.

They are IP68 which seems better to me, but come attached to a junction box that the instructions say must be above ground.

It seems almost common enough to wonder if it is a conspiracy of perversity for makers of lights meant to be buried to not design them to have suitable cable entry and exit points.

SWA cable is going in and I'm wondering how it will all connect up, without having a junction box sticking up by every light?

It's not easy to keep water out of JBs if they are buried in the ground. Prately claim theirs are OK, but people here report that they are not. I've had some ordinary galvanised conduit boxes filled with Pirelli R391 sealing compound outside for several years

but they aren't really buried, and although they get rained on and no doubt sit in standing water at times, they aren't actually underwater. No signs of problems so far.

I've seen plenty of commercial and home installations of 230v lighting without visible junction boxes, can anyone shed any light on how this is done please?

Your electrician?

Any help on suitable products would be greatly appreciated please.

http://images.google.com/images?q=garden+lighting

 

[flameport]

They are IP68 which seems better to me,

For underground use, any IP rating is mostly irrelevant. Water will get in due to pressure differences between the enclosure and the outside environment.

There are only two ways of long lasting outdoor installations.
1 - drain holes so that water doesn't build up inside the enclosure. This is why most outside lights are rated IP44.
2 - a totally filled enclosure, so that there is no air space for any water to enter. Raytech magic gel, epoxy resin or similar.

For anything buried underground, 2 is the only viable option.

 

[WhydidIstart]

Hi, thanks for the replies. It sounds like these are common problems!

I like the idea of lights on top of the wall, will have a look into those - although don't want anything that's a trip hazard or in the way as these walls are between levels of patio so will have people walking up and down them.

Love the idea of a decorative waterproof rope light with glass over it, will see if that can be worked in somehow. Also need some functional lighting though.

Having just tested an uplight at night, I agree they just glare and don’t do anything so that idea has been scrapped!

However what did look good were lights at patio level angled at the boundary wall – no glare and lit up the wall nicely. Has anyone come across something like this? Something like https://www.lightingstyles.co.uk/adjustable-gimble-buried-uplight but ideally nowhere near that cost!

Thanks for the tip about the underground connectors and needing to fill them. What I want to avoid is everything working fine for a month, then tripping the RCD later down the road. I’ll make sure that’s done.

http://images.google.com/images?q=garden+lighting

Not sure if this was the link you intended to post? Ideally I was after specific recommendations of lights people may have used and liked and that stayed dry for a while. If it was for comic effect, I appreciate the humour and you can go one step further with the LMGTFY site: Go to https://lmgtfy.com/ type in your search terms, click get link and copy the link it gives you, in this case http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Garden+Lighting

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Oh I know all about LMGTFY - have had more than one post removed because apparently it's not helpful. BTW - it's even better if you use the obfuscated URL.

The point is to look at photos to see what you really like but hadn't perhaps thought of.

Love the idea of a decorative waterproof rope light with glass over it, will see if that can be worked in somehow.

If the patio hasn't been laid yet, look into resin bonded gravel, as I'm pretty sure you can also have resin bonded glass, so with that and buried rope lights you could have an illuminated design set in, or a path which glows in the dark. Got a child who might like a yellow brick road?

Also, there's this http://www.coregravel.ca/products/core-glow/ - there may be other similar products. https://cheshireboundstone.co.uk/blog/resin-driveways/

 

[bernardgreen]

Gel filled jointing boxes can fail (allowing moisture to reach the conductors ) at very low water pressure ( less than a metre depth ). Resin encapsulation is the only reliable way for underground jointing in damp or moist ground.

For underground use, any IP rating is mostly irrelevant. Water will get in due to pressure differences between the enclosure and the outside environment.

It depends on the amount and depth of the water and the time the water is fluid in the ground

IP67 is water tight when immersed in water upto 1 metre deep for short periods
IP68 is water tight when immersed in water under pressure for long periods

 

[aptsys]

Gel filled jointing boxes can fail (allowing moisture to reach the conductors ) at very low water pressure ( less than a metre depth ). Resin encapsulation is the only reliable way for underground jointing in damp or moist ground.



It depends on the amount and depth of the water and the time the water is fluid in the ground

IP67 is water tight when immersed in water upto 1 metre deep for short periods
IP68 is water tight when immersed in water under pressure for long periods
View attachment 113636

Even resin absorbs water over time.

 

[bernardgreen]

Even resin absorbs water over time.

Hopefully only after I no longer need a mains connection from the supply cable in the street.

The best option for 230 volts in the garden is to have all junctions above ground level ( or predicted flood level if higher ).

It is far safer to use ELV ( such as 12 volts ) unless one has the money to invest in highly reliable underground joint boxes.