Advice on architect fees and finding the right one

[cooa99]

Hi all,
we are thinking of having a top and ground floor side extension. So far I have been gathering numbers of builders and architects from houses nearby where Extensions have just been completed.

My Question is wherever or not this is the way to go when looking for an architect. Also please can you give me an idea on average price I should expect to pay for an architect. Any additional pointers on what to watch out for is highly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[jeds]

Do you need an architect? If you are looking for something unusual, something with a high degree of 'design', then you probably do. If you are looking for a functional square box that just works well with the existing house you probably don't. A chartered surveyor, experienced in domestic design and planning, could do you a design and planning for somewhere in the region of £1.5k to £2.5k depending on the situation and potential planning issues. An architect would likely start at £5k. What did your neighbours pay?

 

[^woody^]

Be aware of the difference between Architects and anyone who draws plans. Not all are the same and not all plan drawers/designers are Architects - nor do they need to be.

You need a designer who can tell you what you can have in terms of planning regulations and any other requirements and constraints, and to interpret that and your requirements into a suitable design. There is the initial concept design, then any planning permission design and then the technical design for building regulations. Also things like water company permissions and party wall act may apply, so the designer needs to advise you on all this. Make sure your quoted fees cover all work required to get the permissions and prepare plans and specifications to enable you to get builder's quotes.

 

[cooa99]

Thanks guys for the clarity I have always assumed the Architect/draftsman were the only ones involved with detailed drawings.

I have never asked in any of the houses price they paid for there services. I would be putting them in a difficult position if its something they don't want to share.

The extension to me seems to be standard. Double storey side extension running the length of the house. Building up to party wall. Ground floor area is approx 9m x 3.6m
On the ground floor we currently have a Large lounge, small kitchen and tiny cloakroom. On 1sf floor we have 3 beds and a bathroom.

My initial thoughts for the extension are sketchy but was thinking :-
1) Ground floor - New bigger Kitchen in the extension. Maybe there is still space left for a shower & toilet.....
2) 1st floor - New master bedroom + oversized bathroom OR 2 Bedrooms + Toilet and shower room in the middle

There are no manholes close to the area to be excavated but I can see that accounting for the drain/soil pipes will impact the design since extending up to the boundary.

Existing Airing cupboard will be removed, Existing Cloakroom will be removed or made bigger to accommodate a shower. I don't think we have enough headroom to extend into the loft. I don't like open plan so kitchen must have doors.

So coming back to your replies I guess I need a designer that can do all that is required?. Is there a separate Job heading I should be looking for?

Thanks

 

[tony1851]

Have a look on your council's planning application web site, where you will see submitted drawings for domestic extensions such as yours.
They will have the names of the architects/plan drawers on them.

Increasingly, architects' drawings seem to be less technical/detailed and more just coloured outlines of pretty pictures displaying people and cars, with a background of potted shrubs, and bricks which are too large in scale and garish in colour. They will often have acres of cut-and-paste notes which are generic, rather than applicable to the job in hand, but they justify the fee and make the client think he's getting something for his money. Quite often for side extensions, the roof shown is actually impossible to build. But the rookie in the planning department will approve it - as long as its' got the obligatory first-floor set-back - without actually knowing it can't be built that way.

Once you get planning permission and go back to the architect for detailed construction drawings, they will either a) tell you they're not required for Building Regulations and that any competent builder should 'know what to do'; or b) charge you another £££s for producing generic CAD drawings, again which are of little help to the builder.

By that stage, you will have learned the difference between 'plans' and 'Plans'.

 

[Nakajo]

Well, black turtle necks aren't cheap, you know.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Turtle heads more like.

 

[Notch7]

guess I need a designer that can do all that is required?. Is there a separate Job heading I should be looking for

Architectural technician.

Not all architects do building regs themselves- I know of one who subs it out to a specialist.

Getting planning drawings and building regs drawings done is a bit of a minefield......prices could vary from £750 to skies the limit for a planning app

 

[wessex101]

This is a very good question and to be honest I do not know the answer.

Around here you cannot throw a stick without hitting an "architectural designer" and most of them are rubbish. As Tony said just cut and paste merchants for generic boxes which they churn out at an alarming rate. The crazy thing is they are not cheap and they get a lot of work, but I suppose the one thing in their favour is they are quick.
I have tried to think what distinguishes the top quality designers from the dross and jotted down a few thoughts.

1. Personal recommendation. The good guys do not advertise, some don't even bother with a website. They are not on "social media" or those dreadful lead generating websites like checkatrade. They don't need to, they are already too busy with all the work they get from personal recommendation and the good local builders.

2. If you are talking to a local builder ask them who they use. This can be a tricky one as if you are talking to a dodgy builder they probably use a dodgy architectural designer but if you really trust the builder and they have a long standing good reputation in the area then whoever does their plans is probably worth a go. In my experience builders like to follow a good set of plans that actually show how the building is constructed and what materials are to be used. Rather than a pretty picture with no technical details so the builder is constantly trying to sort out all the problems because the designer missed all the pertinent details such as the manhole in the middle of the extension or the fact that the roof pitch is too shallow or the stairs to the loft conversion cannot achieve the correct headroom.

3. Professional qualification. This is another tricky one, there are plenty of qualified architectural designers who are useless. But if someone has bothered to spend several years to achieve a professional qualification it should suggest that they are committed to the profession and didn't just download a pirate copy of the CAD software and taught themselves how to use it in their spare time. It also means their professional body has rules which impose standards of conduct and usually requires members to maintain professional indemnity insurance. Again it is not a guarantee of quality but it all adds to the overall picture.

If the person meets all 3 criteria above you should be OK. There are probably other things I have missed so maybe others can chip in.

EDIT: I just thought of another one.
4. How long have they been trading? Someone with at least 10 years of trading under their belt is probably doing something right. The flash Harrys with their pretty little pictures don't seem to be around for very long for some reason.

 

[jeds]

As above is correct, architects often do planning stuff but don't provide building regs drawing or details. I am often instructed to prepare bregs for architects designs and I've lost count of the number of times I've had to basically start from scratch. A recent example; a three storey conversion of a substantial old mill building. Where the stairs rise to the top floor the roof is not full storey - the eaves are about 600 above floor level. So it looks ok on plan but there is no headroom above the stairs. The whole design has to be re-worked to accommodate stairs and what looks like wall-to-wall floor area on the top floor is an illusion - half the space is unusable. Client not happy and, for some reason, it was like it was my fault?

I think the problem is that architects offices give the 'simple' extension work to the newbie in the office - straight out of school.

 

[^woody^]

I've always found it a complete nonsense when hearing about people doing planning but not building regs drawings.

It's no good designing something that can't be built or can't be built practically and economically. So when things like roofs have to be moved to accommodate beams, or walls moved for drains, any planning permission is immediately invalid.

So at the design stage, the designer needs to be aware of building regulation and other non planning issues and include those into the design, and that can mean doing the building regulation design at the same time.

Which then leads to the other scam of charging one fee for planning drawings, and then using the exact same drawings and charging even more for building regs drawings.

 

[^woody^]

Have a look on your council's planning application web site, where you will see submitted drawings for domestic extensions such as yours.
........

Increasingly, architects' drawings seem to be less technical/detailed and more just coloured outlines of pretty pictures displaying people and cars, with a background of potted shrubs

And now you know why. It's advertising/marketing.

 

[charliegolf]

I'd never employ an architect. I'd find an AT or a designer who has taken the trouble to get the skills needed to do all the drawings needed for the job; and who can answer a builder's construction questions.

Woody: as an aside, out of interest only, do you/have you done BR and or planning drawings? I ask because I think that you have said in the past that you are a surveyor? (If that's a terrible libel, I apologise!)

 

[cooa99]

wow, with all the info above this project is getting more daunting from conception.

What I am taking away from this is that I have to go by recommendation to avoid cowboys (and girls) and make sure its a qualified designer/technician that can draw plans and building reg plans and deal with all aspects of the planning application as well.

 

[Millwright]

If you sort of know what you're looking at and how to work things out, you can do the drawings yourself. I had an extension, did the drawings myself and just used a chartered structural engineer for the load bearing calcs. Building control were most happy with this.

Talk to your local building control, most are happy to have a natter. So long as you get from them the maximum eves height, max projection permitted, all and roof to be similar, nothing unusual and you'll be fine.