Advice on gas fire, very confused!

[VCACharles]

Hi,

I'm looking for advice on a fireplace we have inherited, we organised a service and the engineer said ventilation was a required, transpires this has been blocked up since 2005.

We had a copy of the last gas service completed by the previous owner on which 'Ventilation' was marked as pass. The engineer was not impressed and said if they had inspected the vent they would have seen it was blocked...

I contacted the company who did the orginal certificate and raised my concerns they arrived in 5 minutes unexpectedly! They were not happy with the suggestion from the other engineer and stated an air brick wasn't needed as there is adventitious air, they changed their minds after I was unable to produce the MI booklet and therefore said the vent needs opening.

I have tried finding the manual for this fire Crosslee Royal CozyFire 16" Inset Taper with no luck, nothing on the web.

Guidelines are confusing and suggest an open flue fire under 7kw MAY need additional venting depending on spillage test results, but exact requirements will be indicated by the MI so I suspect they have erred on the side of caution.

What do I do? I love the original fire but this vent is ridiculous, I live by the coast and the vent is just not acceptable.

I'm due to get a carpet fitted soon and wondered if a spillage test could be requested and if passed therefore satisfying the need to not need this vent.

I find this all rather odd as I can't believe since 2005 the fire hasn't been used once... if only I could find the manual!

 

[cross thread]

And they are around 20% efficiency

 

[bernardgreen]

I love the original fire but this vent is ridiculous,

the vent could be a life saver. If there is inadequate ventilation then :-

(1) the oxygen supply to the fire will be inadequate to ensure full combustion of the gas. Result is higher levels of carbon monoxide which can kill.

(2) the flow of combustion products up and out of the chimney requires the room to have enough ventilation to allow that flow to happen

 

[Laurieo]

Is this it ?.

Description - Royal Cozyfires Super Sixteen NV Decorative Gas Fireplace User Instructions [Page 2]

Royal Cozyfires Super Sixteen NV Decorative Gas Fireplace Manual Online: Description. The Super Sixteen NG inset is a decorative gas fire designed to fit a traditional fire surround and fireplace, with a chimney that conforms to a conventional Class I flue. i.e. Brick built of 227...

www.manualslib.com

 

[VCACharles]

Is this it ?.

Description - Royal Cozyfires Super Sixteen NV Decorative Gas Fireplace User Instructions [Page 2]

Royal Cozyfires Super Sixteen NV Decorative Gas Fireplace Manual Online: Description. The Super Sixteen NG inset is a decorative gas fire designed to fit a traditional fire surround and fireplace, with a chimney that conforms to a conventional Class I flue. i.e. Brick built of 227...

www.manualslib.com

Unfortunately not it's a 16" Inset Taper NG

 

[denso13]

I love the original fire but this vent is ridiculous, I live by the coast and the vent is just not acceptable.

Get a better vent? You can get all sorts now and can usually hide them away somewhere.

I don't think I'd be using it without the MI's anyway.

 

[kidgreen61]

As long as the fire passes a flue flow, and spillage test, no additional ventilation is required, as the heat input is less than 7kw.

 

[FiremanT]

And they are around 20% efficiency

If one is lucky.

They can, in fact, have an effectively NEGATIVE efficiency. If the room is warm, possibly having been heated by a radiator or solar (sunshine through windows), and one lights a basket fire
the room can become cooler. The heat off the fire heats the chimney. This increases the aero motive force (draught), and literally sucks the previously warm air out of the room - to be replaced by cold external air.

I rarely sold this type of fire, and when the client insisted the quotation and Invoice stated that it was for decoration only, and any heat gain was a bonus.

 

[Elkato531]

As long as the fire passes a flue flow, and spillage test, no additional ventilation is required, as the heat input is less than 7kw.

With a DFE, no allowance can be made for adventitious ventilation unless specifically mentioned in MI.

 

[bernardgreen]

Extractor fans can also affect how much air and combustion products leave via the chimney.

 

[ericmark]

It does not matter if gas or solid fuel, the chimney effect can cause massive drafts through the house. This was why in the 50's we had high backed chairs, so the draft under the door did not cool the occupants, and the cure was a ducted air vent close to the fire.

But in the 50's doors did not seal very well, as we have improved doors and windows, we have also needed to add vents, I moved house after the Winter of discontent because my house needed electric to run the central heating, and the design of the house did not allow use of a gas fire. Distance from doors and windows could not be achieved.

The next house had a flue brick and a 4.5 kW gas fire, but no vents to feed gas fire with air, so it caused drafts, this house an open fire, again if used, and we don't it is for emergency use only, it would cause drafts. So my main emergency system is solar panels and a battery, so in theroy we can still run the oil central heating with a power cut.

Central heating today has moved on, the first I had although vents could be opened or closed, it heated whole house, no way could living room be turned off, and other rooms very limited controls, today the programmable TRV on water heat transmission allows us to select how much and when each room is heated, these in 2019 cost me £15 each, clearly not the best TRV head, but today the boiler may be centralised, but each rooms has some independence from others, so we can now heat just one room at a time. And more important without over heating any room, main problem with a fire, be it gas or solid fuel, is no automated control, so rooms end up too hot.

Both my father-in-law and I had identical houses, we used the central heating, gas fire was for an emergency, but he used the gas fire, the central heating just back ground heat, so any gas fitter has to consider it is used all the time.

 

[footprints]

Advice when I were a gasman was, always go by the manufactures instructions even if standard regs say it is OK.
As suggested a better vent might help with drafts.

Draughtbuster vents​

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[Stuart981]

Back in the day we didn't worry too much about ventilation for fossil fuel burners because there was always enough air entering the house around windows and doors etc. These days with hermetically sealed homes a permanent vent is an absolute must for any non room sealed appliance.

 

[FiremanT]

With a DFE, no allowance can be made for adventitious ventilation unless specifically mentioned in MI.

And that vent, for a single appliance, must be 100cm2. No fly screens or closability. Do not use the 5cm/Kw calculation.

An inset tray often has the letters “NV” as part of the model name. This means “no vent Reqd”. In the absence of that designation on the data plate, and no MI’s to the contrary, then the minimum is the 100cm2

 

[Terrywookfit]

In the absence of specific M I !00 cm2. Will also need a class 1 flue,

Is it a "Pre " or post aerated burner