Advice Please on my next step

[kwackerman]

Hi,

I am in the process of selling my house. We've lived here over 20 years and I have in the past changed a few sockets/ put in wall lights etc. myself.

The house has two consumer units, both old fuse wire types, one for the main house the other for the 1980's extension. The extension consumer unit developed a fault about 6 years ago so I replaced it myself with a modern unit with mcbs and rcd. I have had no problems.

Obviously, now I want to sell the house I need to provide an electrical safety cert and perhaps other documentation. I checked out this forum and using an online tradesperson website called I think Rated, I engaged a qualified electrician.
I explained to him that I required a full safety test and a replacement consumer unit. I provided photographs of the old setup. Reading various threads on here I expected him to firstly test the wiring, then replace the unit and re-test.
He turned up as promised, lovely bloke, and proceded to rip out the consumer unit. When I mentioned that I had expected him to test the circuits first he kind of gave me that 'let the professional get on with what he's doing' look so I did.
After a while he told me he would have to call out the power company to upgrade the earth strap and change the neutral something or other. They turned up and he told me that they were a good pair of lads and would put in a new earth strap, power supply and master switch for a backhander of £40 ( plus a couple of sausage rolls!). This apparently saved me around £400.
He finishes fitting the new unit and procedes with the circuit testing.
After about 2 hours of fiddling around he announces that he can't pass the installation and give me a safety certificate because the kitchen light circuit won't pass the latest specs for the mcb trip speed (i think) and he was having trouble testing one of the radial circuits.

He said if I want any kind of certificate for the work carried out it would have to state he was testing a consumer unit already fitted! And of course I have no paperwork for the new earth strap/power supply etc form the western power distribution guys.

Now, the house is being sold needing a full damp course and many other works needing doing and re-wiring the whole of the house was in that list, all I tried to do was sell the house with a safe consumer unit and some peace of mind and hopefully avoid any complications with building control etc.

I really don't know what to do now, I wish I'd stood my ground and insisted on him testing the circuits first but he is meant to be the professional.

Any ideas??

 

[EFLImpudence]

A Electrical Installation Condition Report is just that - a report - unless there is anything dangerous, the report will be satisfactory, if not, then unsatisfactory and the defects can be rectified and noted.
There is no pass or fail.

If there are things complying with out of date regulations, this does not affect the satisfactory declaration.


Anyway, to selling the house.
Just tell the truth. If you fitted a new CU then just say you do not have any paperwork and the price reflects the situation.

It is up to the buyer whether to buy or not.

 

[kwackerman]

Thanks EFLimpudence,

The electrician told me that the safety report was a printed out document but a failure would mean I only got some kind of handwritten report. I know what you mean when you say its up to the buyer but in reality it will likely be up to the mortgage provider.

 

[John D v2.0]

Personally I'd probably not have bothered and let the buyer upgrade as they saw fit, assuming you weren't aware of any actual danger.
Regarding the electrician you've had in, having changed your cu he's got to sign off all the circuits he connects to it as passing the tests, or leave them disconnected.
Whether you let him reconnect faulty circuits or not is a matter for you and him, although you could negotiate a reduced payment for the missing certificate and/or report him to his professional body depending how you feel.

 

[EFLImpudence]

It's up to the buyer (ok and mortgage co.) to survey and carry out tests. They won't trust your documents either way.

In the end it will come down to price - no matter what anyone says needs repairing or not.


As long as you don't lie.

 

[kwackerman]

Thanks for the advice, I wish I had left it now. He said a rough price for a complete re-wire would be £3k without the making good ( 3 bed mid-terrace 1910 built house). I imagine that now an up to date consumer unit/power supply and earth bond has been fitted the new owners will save 4-500 off their re-wire costs. I paid him £450 including the backhander to the power company guys.

 

[conny]

Did the DNO guys arrive in a marked vehicle, (i.e. company logo), or just a plain van?

Call me cynical but this sounds very fishy to me.

 

[kwackerman]

Yeah, Western Power Distribution van, I spoke to the switchboard to confirm my customer account number and I had a courtesy call asking me if I was pleased with the work done!! The electrician had said he might need to get them in to do the earth bond but said most of the blokes were miserable gits so we were quite lucky to get two in who would do it on the sly.

 

[Iggifer]

The backhander sounds very suspicious to me. I've never had a problem with WPD, they've always been super accommodating on any job we've been on with them. They've also been good on faults I've reported to them when I've not been there when they've fixed them.

It's their equipment at the end of the day, and if it needs repairing (and you haven't damaged it maliciously) then they foot the bill. Elective works such as upgrades and moves are chargeable, but not repairs.

 

[kwackerman]

When I described the work I required over the phone he asked for pictures of the consumer unit and earth strap/power supply. He then told me over the phone that he may need to get the earth bond/strap replaced when he does the consumer unit. He called them out ( I confirmed address and account number) telling them the earth bond was defective and the neutral feed cover?? was defective. I wasn't in the room when the deal was struck but I assume those two items constituted a repair and they saw an opportunity to make a few quid by installing new tails/ live feed and master switch. The only original equipment that had unbroken seals was the meter itself, all the other seals had been broken before we moved in in 1994. They didn't comment on the seals being broken. Nothing was damaged maliciously.

 

[John D v2.0]

Sounds funny to me too, we have a 3 phase incomer for some reason that noone knows. It was apparently a pitch filled boat, anyway I called the London dno and told them it looked dodgy and they sent someone to look. He said it was fine but the fuse was some wire of unknown rating so he booked in a team that replaced the board and cutout (working live on all three phases), and installed a 100A switch and a new main earth block for me, all for free. He did only put in a 60A fuse into the phase we're connected to, but he said we could change it later.
In the process of re terminating the cable the Ze improved quite a lot too!
Maybe if I'd offered them 40 quid they'd have taken it, but the thought didn't enter my head!

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

@kwackerman, You have had your pants pulled down and your arse slapped, my friend!

 

[securespark]

To the OP:

Have you got an overhead supply?

It is possible that the upgrade was for PME, in which case it would be chargeable.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I have in the past changed a few sockets/ put in wall lights etc. myself.
The extension consumer unit developed a fault about 6 years ago so I replaced it myself with a modern unit with mcbs and rcd.

Was this work approved by building controls?

Obviously, now I want to sell the house I need to provide an electrical safety cert and perhaps other documentation.

Seems not BC approved then, and you have broke the law of the land!

I checked out this forum and using an online tradesperson website called I think Rated, I engaged a qualified electrician.

Not checked out this website forum too well then, as you would have been pointed in the right direction to move forward on this issue, and steered away from any on-line trade-person websites.

I explained to him that I required a full safety test and a replacement consumer unit.

It would have been an electrical installation conditional report, not safety certificate. This will offer a report on the condition of the installation, this would not automatically require a fuse board change!

I provided photographs of the old setup.

So the rated trademan, could not even be bothered to attend the property prior to quoting?

Reading various threads on here I expected him to firstly test the wiring, then replace the unit and re-test.

Not all do, but not all installation are suitable for a board swap to RCDs without some remedial work being carried out, which is why it is advisable that some testing is done, prior to change. You would have then been informed of what additional work would be required.

He turned up as promised, lovely bloke, and proceded to rip out the consumer unit. When I mentioned that I had expected him to test the circuits first he kind of gave me that 'let the professional get on with what he's doing' look so I did.

Wolf and sheep's clothing come to mind!

After a while he told me he would have to call out the power company to upgrade the earth strap and change the neutral something or other.

Hoooooowl!

They turned up and he told me that they were a good pair of lads and would put in a new earth strap, power supply and master switch for a backhander of £40 ( plus a couple of sausage rolls!). This apparently saved me around £400.

Hooooooowl

He finishes fitting the new unit and procedes with the circuit testing.
After about 2 hours of fiddling around he announces that he can't pass the installation and give me a safety certificate because the kitchen light circuit won't pass the latest specs for the mcb trip speed (i think) and he was having trouble testing one of the radial circuits.

Really! please expand on that one?

He said if I want any kind of certificate for the work carried out it would have to state he was testing a consumer unit already fitted!

Arse slap!

And of course I have no paperwork for the new earth strap/power supply etc form the western power distribution guys.

Not really required, as this would have gone down on the non-existent cert!

all I tried to do was sell the house with a safe consumer unit and some peace of mind and hopefully avoid any complications with building control etc.

Well that is not strictly true, think of what you did previously!
Installing electrics, without proving any thing was safe and being ignorant to the law, what you actually tried to do was cover this up!

I really don't know what to do now, I wish I'd stood my ground and insisted on him testing the circuits first but he is meant to be the professional.
Any ideas??

Go here, http://www.electricalcompetentperson.co.uk/.
select someone locally to perform a EICR. Contact the scheme that the previous electrician is registered to, and make a complaint about them.

 

[kwackerman]

Thanks for your reply prenticeboyofderry.

Reading through the various forums shows up an alarming amount of rip-off tradesmen, shoddy over priced work which is the main reason many of us do not trust so called professionals. On this forum the general concensus seems to be that the vast majority of houses have had work done without the proper paperwork and permissions.

I contacted 3 local electricians, 2 never bothered to turn up to quote for the job, the other could not fit it in for over 2 months ( his estimate was £475). That is why I advertised the job on Rated. He is also listed on the website you have suggested in your post above. So if he is listed on the competent person website why should I have any faith in any of the other tradesmen on there.

Thanks again for your comments