Advice please on unsatisfactory plumber
- Thread starter Concussed
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So let me get this right - you'd be unwilling on a point of principle, not one of safety?
And who mentioned backhanders? There's every reason to assume that the deal would be overt and legal, because of the requirement to notify.
Why couldn't you make a charge that's commensurate with your experience and training? A fee that pays not just for your time, but also for all of the overheads that you mentioned?
And who mentioned backhanders? There's every reason to assume that the deal would be overt and legal, because of the requirement to notify.
Why couldn't you make a charge that's commensurate with your experience and training? A fee that pays not just for your time, but also for all of the overheads that you mentioned?
"However, back to the point - is it wrong for a competent plumber to do an entire boiler installation but not run gas to it, and for an RGI to come along, gas it up, verify the installation, commission it, verify it and notify it?"
Funnily enough, Corgi don't like this at all. We had a 'nearly did this' case at work where a new (non RGI) bloke was supposed to be supervised by an RGI..who got called away, and left the perfectly competent non RGI (who is RGI now incidentally) to do as you suggest. The words S**t and Fan spring to mind.
One supervisor thought it was an OK scenario. The Boss thought otherwise,and "VERBOTEN" was handed down from on high later the same day after due discussion.
When you think about it, it leaves the RGI very exposed if something goes tits up at any time in the future. Personally, regardless of the legality, it is bad practice IMHO.
Alfredo
Funnily enough, Corgi don't like this at all. We had a 'nearly did this' case at work where a new (non RGI) bloke was supposed to be supervised by an RGI..who got called away, and left the perfectly competent non RGI (who is RGI now incidentally) to do as you suggest. The words S**t and Fan spring to mind.
One supervisor thought it was an OK scenario. The Boss thought otherwise,and "VERBOTEN" was handed down from on high later the same day after due discussion.
When you think about it, it leaves the RGI very exposed if something goes tits up at any time in the future. Personally, regardless of the legality, it is bad practice IMHO.
Alfredo
Softus said:
It is bad enough doing your own work and putting you name to it.
Its ok to say yes everything is fine when we test, but if anything goes wrong later it is our responsability.
May never happen but I would rather be in court for my own work than someone elses.
Does that make sense?
Just a tick - are you saying that the RGI who was called away came back later, or didn't come back later? These are two very different scenarios.
I'd like to understand what the risk is. It's pointless just for people to say "huge", or "so big that I'd be unwilling to take it". That's a description not of the risk, but the anxiety caused by it.
A risk is something that you can put it terms of words like "...that <event> will happen, resulting in <bad outcome>".
For example - the risk (to some installers) of using pushfit fittings is that a seal or grab wedge will fail, resulting in water damage to property.
Another example - the risk of soldering on copper pipework systems is that flux and other debris will end up in undesirable places and /or lead to corrosion.
Then we have the mitigation of the risk. In the first case, the mitigation is to follow the MIs and to not use scratched or damaged pipe. In the second, it's to flush out the pipework after a bunch of soldering.
So, what exactly is the risk when a non-RGI does an installation that is later verified by an RGI?
I'd like to understand what the risk is. It's pointless just for people to say "huge", or "so big that I'd be unwilling to take it". That's a description not of the risk, but the anxiety caused by it.
A risk is something that you can put it terms of words like "...that <event> will happen, resulting in <bad outcome>".
For example - the risk (to some installers) of using pushfit fittings is that a seal or grab wedge will fail, resulting in water damage to property.
Another example - the risk of soldering on copper pipework systems is that flux and other debris will end up in undesirable places and /or lead to corrosion.
Then we have the mitigation of the risk. In the first case, the mitigation is to follow the MIs and to not use scratched or damaged pipe. In the second, it's to flush out the pipework after a bunch of soldering.
So, what exactly is the risk when a non-RGI does an installation that is later verified by an RGI?
Things may or may not happen but when it comes down to it whose name is on that piece of paper.
Like I said I would rather be in court for my own work than someone who says he did it not me, I lose, I am registered.
Looking at big money fines and going away to prison and leaving my kids.
If it is my fault fair enough, I am not going down for the DIY enthusiast that (knows) what he is doing
Like I said I would rather be in court for my own work than someone who says he did it not me, I lose, I am registered.
Looking at big money fines and going away to prison and leaving my kids.
If it is my fault fair enough, I am not going down for the DIY enthusiast that (knows) what he is doing
OK - I'm getting the idea.
Is the risk that you might miss a mistake that the non-RGI had made, when doing your verification?
If so then I can understand your view of that, because the impact of such a thing is unacceptable, no matter how low the probability of the event.
However, this is a separate point to that of legality. Nobody, apart from CORGI (whose ability to interpret the GSIURs is laughably poor) seems to believe that it's illegal for a non-RGI to rely on the later verification by an RGI, albeit difficult to find a who's willing RGI to do that.
Is the risk that you might miss a mistake that the non-RGI had made, when doing your verification?
If so then I can understand your view of that, because the impact of such a thing is unacceptable, no matter how low the probability of the event.
However, this is a separate point to that of legality. Nobody, apart from CORGI (whose ability to interpret the GSIURs is laughably poor) seems to believe that it's illegal for a non-RGI to rely on the later verification by an RGI, albeit difficult to find a who's willing RGI to do that.
To add my pennyworth 
Larger Companys doitall the time. Pipe fitters, plumbers and heating engineers install, then the technical bods do the wiring and commission.
Ok so Im talking commercial and cannot comment on the domestic market, and I think they are trying to stop the practice, will try and find out and post here.
Think of it another way, every day thousands of you go to peoples homes to service the appliances, who checks to see if it was installed by an RGI and how can you verify it.
Also my view is, untill they stop DIY and the cowboys, isnt it safer to commission an appliance for an DIYer, as an RGI does a duty of care come into play, by refusing to check an appliance are you acting irresponsibly.
To add a bit on the bottom, we employ specialist flue installers.
Larger Companys doitall the time. Pipe fitters, plumbers and heating engineers install, then the technical bods do the wiring and commission.
Ok so Im talking commercial and cannot comment on the domestic market, and I think they are trying to stop the practice, will try and find out and post here.
Think of it another way, every day thousands of you go to peoples homes to service the appliances, who checks to see if it was installed by an RGI and how can you verify it.
Also my view is, untill they stop DIY and the cowboys, isnt it safer to commission an appliance for an DIYer, as an RGI does a duty of care come into play, by refusing to check an appliance are you acting irresponsibly.
To add a bit on the bottom, we employ specialist flue installers.
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