fair enough, yes, I've experienced many a washer-dryer, and they don't work. Maybe there are some condensing models that do actually work then. When you consider the efficiency of a building, you consider the building itself, how it is heated and how 'leaky' it is. I'm interested in the costs associated with gas space heating a conventional house, which can be astronomical. The number of appliances plugged in is neither here nor there, it's not something that you can control. You can control things like lighting and the need for cooling/ventilation by careful design, and considering how people will adapt the house.
Airtight electrical back boxes
- Thread starter tew1
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That would seem to require either that they are thermostatically-controlled (which I didn't think most were - but maybe I'm wrong) or that they have lower-power elements than traditional dryers.
Kind Regards, John
I don't think there's much difference in efficiency between a condensing and a regular dryer. They are both 3kw, and both take a similar time to dry clothes (apparently). It's like the efficiency stickers you get on washing machines, it's total nonsense. Just because a machine is efficient at heating the water, doesn't mean that a cold-feed washing machine heating water with electricity is more efficient than a hot feed machine heated by an efficient condensing boiler, quite the contrary!
Quite.
Fair enough, but if you're the person responsible for paying the bills for the whole building (not just the 'conditioned envelope'), then, as I've said, you surely need to address the issue of an appliance pumping goodness knows how much electrically-heated air (much more expensive than gas-heated air) into your garden. Until you were just informed about 'real' condensing tumble-dryers, you seemed happy with the idea of pumping all that expensive 'electrical energy' into your garden - which could well cancel out much of the cost-saving good you'd done in other parts of the building.
Kind Regards, John
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No! Condensing dryers are designed for a different reason. The big problem with boiler fed washing machines is the loss of heat through pipework (not a worry maybe in winter) and the tank (if used). Turn on the machine and cold water from the pipe flows in followed by water from the tank / boiler. The hot water left in the pipework cools to ambient. Not what you want in summer. Combi boilers are worse for obvious reasons. In the real world the efficiency of any system depends upon how, when and where it is used. Efficiency of the (washing) machine allows comparison as does that of a boiler, but the whole system needs to be considered in order to make a valid comparison. A good bathroom and kitchen design taking these things into account would be well worthwhile as it would cost nothing over 60 years and give many benefits, but where do you see this considered in kitchen or bathroom plans? How often do you see a basin at the end of the pipework?
Condensing dryers are designed for circumstances where there is no outside vent, and it is either impractical or undesirable to fit one.
However all dryers are grossly wasteful of energy, regardless of what fuel they use or whether they are vented outside or not.
However all dryers are grossly wasteful of energy, regardless of what fuel they use or whether they are vented outside or not.
That surely 'depends'? If it's not vented to the outside, and if something (like condensing) is done to deal with the moisture, then at times of years when heating is required (which presumably are the times of year when dryers are most used), very little energy will be 'wasted'. I accept that electrical energy is clearly not the most cost-effective thing to use to heat a building - but, under the circumstances I've described, I don't think I would call it 'wasted' energy.
Kind Regards, John
Indeed. And when mother is using the drier, she moves it round so it circulates the warm exhaust round the ground floor - if all the doors are open, air can go through the hall, lounge, dining room and back to the kitchen.
The house is generally fairly dry (typically mid 40s RH) so the smallish amount of moisture released isn't a problem.
I can recall years go when as a lad I used to work on a farm. When "Mrs farmer" had the tumble drier going and we were in the house for a meal, we'd put our wellies so the warm air blew into them so they weren't cold when we had to go back out. Looking back, we were a bit soft
The house is generally fairly dry (typically mid 40s RH) so the smallish amount of moisture released isn't a problem.
I can recall years go when as a lad I used to work on a farm. When "Mrs farmer" had the tumble drier going and we were in the house for a meal, we'd put our wellies so the warm air blew into them so they weren't cold when we had to go back out. Looking back, we were a bit soft
Like a lot of washers and driers, it has two wheels and two feet. So it pulls forward and turns a bit fairly easily so the exhaust points through the door into the hallway. The warm air can then circulate round the ground floor.
it's this kind of thing that gives British people a bad name lol
We seem to have gone on a laundry tangent. I think, all things considered, a gas vented dryer is the most cost-effective solution. Electricity is not an efficient way of heating anything unless we're talking about a heat pump. From what I've read, condensing dryers always release a certain amount of moisture into the air, which would be a big problem in an airtight house. From experience, houses with condenser dryers always have condensation and mould problems. Maybe this isn't always the case? Also, having a 3kw heater running for hours, blowing hot air into a confined space such as a laundry room, small kitchen or closet might cause excessive overheating in an airtight house, making the immediate space unbearable to be in.
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