1. Visiting from the US? Why not try DIYnot.US instead? Click here to continue to DIYnot.US.
    Dismiss Notice

Alternative to Gas Boiler ?

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by jonm01, 18 Nov 2020.

  1. jonm01

    jonm01

    Joined:
    8 Aug 2011
    Messages:
    56
    Thanks Received:
    5
    Location:
    Manchester
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Have heard the government announcement today that gas boilers are to be phased out. Mine is due for replacement soon, or, I thought it should be! But... It now seems it might not be the best thing to do? Are there any actual realistic , cost effective, options, instead of gas, for a well insulated 5 bed semi, or is it a long way off yet.
     
  2. Sponsored Links
  3. CBW

    CBW

    Joined:
    26 Sep 2019
    Messages:
    9,016
    Thanks Received:
    2,404
    Location:
    North
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Might be a while off yet, and it’s probably, they won’t be selling them, gas will probably still be available.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  4. Harry Bloomfield

    Harry Bloomfield

    Joined:
    30 Dec 2018
    Messages:
    8,303
    Thanks Received:
    1,146
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    A modern control setup will do that anyway and automagically.

    They were talking about air sourced heat pumps, which might be the only option for those without a garden or with a tiny garden to allow ground sourced. Problem with both, is that as outdoor temperatures fall, they produce less and less heat input - exactly when more heat input is most needed.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  5. Harry Bloomfield

    Harry Bloomfield

    Joined:
    30 Dec 2018
    Messages:
    8,303
    Thanks Received:
    1,146
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Determining Kw output needed from the boiler is now a fairly normal part of a modern control system. Boilers can vary their output Kw between minimum and maximum limits, control systems are able to work out from current temperature versus desired temperature, plus a user set variable just what Kw output is required from the boiler to precisely reach that desired temperature, with no overshoot, then maintain it within reasonably tight limits.

    Proportional control versus the old system of full output or off. Proportional means the boiler can be ticking over to maintain temperatures and working well into its best condensing mode. No need for Eco modes at all, in Eco mode all of the time.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  6. Harry Bloomfield

    Harry Bloomfield

    Joined:
    30 Dec 2018
    Messages:
    8,303
    Thanks Received:
    1,146
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    No, gas heating is by far the cheapest solution - if you are due a replacement gas boiler - get one, but don't be rushed into it. The only thing possibly cheaper, is a wood burning stove, where you have free access to the wood to cut up and burn.

    Basic electric heating costs 4 or 5 times as much as gas. Air or ground sourced electric heating can manage to double the efficiency/ halve the cost.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  7. M1957

    M1957

    Joined:
    17 Apr 2020
    Messages:
    31
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    It is Opentherm controls that communicate with the boiler to adjust the flow temp setpoint based on the room temperature. It goes even further than modulating boilers that are often set at a fixed flow temperature - unless it has weather compensation which changes the flow temp based on the outside temperature.
     
    Last edited: 20 Nov 2020
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  8. muggles

    muggles

    Joined:
    28 Oct 2005
    Messages:
    13,337
    Thanks Received:
    3,073
    Location:
    Daventry
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    They're being phased out for new builds. There's not much chance of phasing them out for existing properties any time soon
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    • Like Like x 1
  9. ericmark

    ericmark

    Joined:
    27 Jan 2008
    Messages:
    18,606
    Thanks Received:
    1,746
    Location:
    Llanfair Caereinion, Nr Welshpool
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I was interested with brother-in-laws old house, he had solar panels, wood burner, and LPG boiler, latter hardly used, it had two large water containers to store the heat, seemed perfect, however when you looked into it, installation costs were very high, and the floor needed to be reinforced to take the weight of the tanks, and it took up a lot of room.

    At the moment my house has a 60 amp supply, but if I wanted electric heating and an electric car, then likely I would need at least 200 amp supply, all consumer units are rated 125 amp or less, so we are looking at some where in the region of using four times the electric power to that used today, I would expect my average is around 10 to 20 amp, so the average is going to be nearly 10 times what is used today.

    OK some already using all electric, and not everyone will be using an electric car to maximum mileage, but the only real way is to cheat, I see an avert self charging car, no need to plug in, and yes solar panels on roof of car and induction loops could charge batteries without plugging in, but in real terms we all know there will be a petrol generator built into to car, yes there may be a buffer so instead of braking going down hill it charges the battery but we have had that for years. [​IMG] 1984 to 1986 this was made, with limited success, and there have been attempts to improve electric transport ever since, across the road to where I lived we had a milk man, and he bought a renault kangoo long wheel base van to deliver milk on a round of 64 miles, it had a claim of 100 miles range, but he run out of power quite a few times, so clearly no where near 100 mile range.

    I worked on Sizewell 'B' started around 1989 on my return from Falklands, and I was no where near the first man on site, and it is claimed it went on line Feb 1995 but that was the diesel back up generators being tested, so looking at around 10 years to build a nuclear power station, and another 5 years planning before that, so looking at 15 years from when go ahead is given to producing power.

    So I would say they are pipe dreams, maybe by 2040 they have a chance, but by then I will be likely dead, so I can't see it really happening.
     
  10. Sponsored Links
  11. Friday round

    Friday round

    Joined:
    19 Nov 2020
    Messages:
    27
    Thanks Received:
    4
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    If your house is well insulated, have a tank, a bit of space out back and water based underfloor heating, consider air sourced heat pump, and look into the £5000 government grant to install it.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  12. muggles

    muggles

    Joined:
    28 Oct 2005
    Messages:
    13,337
    Thanks Received:
    3,073
    Location:
    Daventry
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Of course they are, if installed correctly
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  13. Harry Bloomfield

    Harry Bloomfield

    Joined:
    30 Dec 2018
    Messages:
    8,303
    Thanks Received:
    1,146
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Yes, so can I - separately for both CH and HW.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  14. vulcancontinental

    vulcancontinental

    Joined:
    26 Jun 2010
    Messages:
    10,892
    Thanks Received:
    4,288
    Location:
    Bedfordshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    40% is, as you say,dramatic. How have you arrived at that figure by running the heating system cooler as you describe which is a simple setback operation?
     
  15. jonm01

    jonm01

    Joined:
    8 Aug 2011
    Messages:
    56
    Thanks Received:
    5
    Location:
    Manchester
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    We have all those except underfloor heating, its all rads, but yes thats interesting if its a possibility with radiators.
     
  16. Harry Bloomfield

    Harry Bloomfield

    Joined:
    30 Dec 2018
    Messages:
    8,303
    Thanks Received:
    1,146
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    That I agree with - impossible pipe dreams. Unqualified committees decide what would be nice to do, politicians agree with them and away they go with no idea of what might be practically possible.
     
  17. jonm01

    jonm01

    Joined:
    8 Aug 2011
    Messages:
    56
    Thanks Received:
    5
    Location:
    Manchester
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Is it possible to achieve this if I just turn down my ( non condensing ) heat only boiler setting, once the house and hot water is up to temperature?
     
Loading...

Share This Page