Amd 3 and plastic wall plugs

[RF Lighting]

I've been reading some articles and also noticed some manufacturers claiming that the use of plastic wall plugs is no longer compliant when fixing wiring systems in escape routes to prevent premature collapse and subsequent ligature risks in the event of fire.

I’m struggling to find any actual conclusive evidence which supports these claims, and suspect it may be more a case of heresay from the manufacturers and retailers of metallic plugs and concrete screws to boost their sales.

Can anyone point me in the direction of an official document or regulation which prohibits the use of plastic plugs or mandates the use of metallic fixings?

 

[EFLImpudence]

I doubt there will be specific prohibition of things like that. More likely that they will rely on words like 'suitable'.
When in masonry, is it likely that they will melt in the appropriate time?
I have read that old-fashioned fibre ones may be re-introduced.

What about screws directly in wood?

 

[JohnD]

official document or regulation

It would have to go in Building Regulations, wouldn't it?

ISTR that after the Grenfell fire, a Housing Minister said he had been too busy keeping his department running smoothly to waste any time issuing new regulations.

 

[JohnW2]

I've been reading some articles and also noticed some manufacturers claiming that the use of plastic wall plugs is no longer compliant when fixing wiring systems in escape routes to prevent premature collapse and subsequent ligature risks in the event of fire.

Yes, I've seen that too - and, like you and probably most others, I really don't understand how one is meant to interpret the reg - as EFLI has said, I suspect the buck is being passed with concepts like 'suitable'.

Don't forget that 'the 18th' appears to have extended the requirement (whatever it is) to 'everywhere', not just escape routes.

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

Can anyone point me in the direction of an official document or regulation which prohibits the use of plastic plugs or mandates the use of metallic fixings?

I strongly suspect it'll be a bit like the alternative to metal as a material for consumer units: it surely exists, but no one will make mention of any as (like CU's) everyone is jumping on the ferrous bandwagon. Why stick with RP's when they can market "New AMD 3/ 18th Ed." compliant fixings?

 

[333rocky333]

Dont know where I read it but i think theres a temperature limit the fixings now have to withstand and thats where the rawlplugs fail, as someone said, what about fixings into wood

 

[AndyPRK]

Doesn’t plastic melt faster than a screw coming out of wood ?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes, faster, but how does it react when it is jammed into masonry where the flames can't get to it?

They cannot be hotter than the surrounding masonry.

Is the screw going to transmit the heat and cause them to melt?
What would the same do to wood?

I don't know the answers; just asking?

Likely no one has thought about it - just change to something else 'cos it seems like a good idea - metal CU anyone?

 

[JohnW2]

Likely no one has thought about it - just change to something else 'cos it seems like a good idea - metal CU anyone?

Well, it's presumably the same 'great minds' behind it (and I don't meant IET, BSI or JPEL/64!), I imagine, isn't it?

Kind Regards, John

 

[John D v2.0]

BRE did those tests in 2015
https://electrical.theiet.org/wiring-matters/issues/58/fire-performance-of-cable-supports/
Edit: in the pdf scroll down to the fixing experiments, summary is that all the plastic plugs are compromised at 400c for 1 hour and they recommend 600c resistance.

 

[mattylad]

Due to new plastic recycling and antiplastic regulations, the use of plastic wallplugs are to be outlawed in 2020.
Instead a new recyclable fireproof cardboard wallplug (100% recyclable) is being developed.
Unfortunately tests on current models are not going well when subjected to water treatment under leak conditions.

 

[SUNRAY]

Due to new plastic recycling and antiplastic regulations, the use of plastic wallplugs are to be outlawed in 2020.
Instead a new recyclable fireproof cardboard wallplug (100% recyclable) is being developed.
Unfortunately tests on current models are not going well when subjected to water treatment under leak conditions.

Oh I'm so glad I kept all those Alex plugs.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Do you not have any of that loose fluffy stuff with asbestos in which you make wet and push the paste into the hole? Pretty sure asbestos doesn't burn.

 

[JohnW2]

'non-combustible'? ... you'd better tell the CU manufacturers about that

 

[flameport]

Do you not have any of that loose fluffy stuff with asbestos in which you make wet and push the paste into the hole?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262985363472