ANY IDEAS WELCOME

[TRANSPORTER]

Hi there first post and new to forum so please bear with me,
I moved into a Barratts new build last October and since then have had problems with both heating and hot water but mainly hot water.
My system comprises of,
Ideal Icos boiler (HE Range)
Drayton Lifestyle dual channel programmer
Range Tribune HE storage/immersion tank

The main problem is hot water running out after two showers of no more than five minutes each approx, we have the hot water programmed to come on at 05.00-06.30 each morning, and 16.30-18.30 in the evenings.
Both showers are taken before 07.30 and 90% of the time the hot water runs out half way through the second one.
So far we have had changed,
Water pump
expansion chamber (now need a second one due to noise)
fan on boiler
Thermostat on storage/immersion tank
system flushed due to grit in pipes.

I have had an ideal agent round to check boiler (fan Changed) on attaching his thermo leads to inlet pipe and out let pipe for temp readings on boiler it took atleast 5 minutes to reach 52 degrees, and no higher, on asking if any thermostatic valves were on radiaters which there are upstairs, (he looked downstairs in the room with the main thermo switch?) he asked for all valves to be turned off, on doing so the boiler started to climb in temerature although it took atleast 10 minutes to reach 81 degrees, lots of switching off and on of boiler to make sure it cycled then left on.
Then we turned on the thermostatic valves on the upstairs radiators the boiler took an absolute age to warm up bearing in mind that this was straight after it had got up to 81 degrees, it only reached 52 degrees and would go no higher, the agent said this was normal as it was running at full flow and takes time to get back to 81 degrees, this was after 10 minutes plus of waiting for his thermometer to rise which it didnt, he then just diconnected it packed up and left saying the boiler was fine.

Just how long should it take for the boiler to come up to temperature with thermostatic valves open ( 5 non thermo radiators down stairs 2 upstairs and 3 thermo valved upstairs). Three bedroomed new build end terrace house.

Also how long should I expect the water to stay hot in the storage tank, every other house I have owned has had the boiler fire up on demand of hot water this boiler doesn't it just seems to heat and not very well and send water to the tank.

Do you think the boiler is at fault and should be replaced, we were told by the installers that our boiler was already not made anymore when it was fitted, or could it be something else not working on the system like the dual controller?

many thanks for all responses sorry its a long one
Cheers Pete

 

[D_Hailsham]

I moved into a Barratts new build last October and since then have had problems with both heating and hot water but mainly hot water.
Do you think the boiler is at fault and should be replaced, we were told by the installers that our boiler was already not made anymore when it was fitted, or could it be something else not working on the system like the dual controller?

Was the heating system installed by contractors employed by Barratts or did you arrange and pay for the work yourself?. If Barratts were responsible you should get on to them; the work should be covered by the NHBC 10 year guarantee.

Have you spoken to neighbours to see if they have problems?

 

[giblets]

I think the NHBC guarantee only covers the structure not the fittings.

Was the house new when you moved in? If so then, as DH says, kick up at Barratts. It's their problem if the boiler does need changing and the existing boiler is no longer made.

 

[Agile]

It sounds as if the boiler is not reaching full power output.

You can check the power input by measuring the gas rate at the meter when the boiler is on and heating the system. See the FAQ or search for "gas rate" for instructions. Then tell us.

It sounds as if your showers are just using up the water stored! Whats the volume of the cylinder???

Measure the flow rate of the shower in litres per minute and then calculate the volume of water used by your showering. I suspect it just exceeds the volume of the cylinder.

That boiler is still available in similar models and should be fine for the application if it working properly.

Tony

 

[D_Hailsham]

I think the NHBC guarantee only covers the structure not the fittings.

If the installation was part of the contract then it is covered under the NHBC Warranty.

The house, bungalow, flat or maisonette referred to in the
Buildmark Offer, together with any of the following which
are included in the original Contract:
a Any Common Parts.
b The drainage system serving your Home for which you
are responsible.
c Any new electrical fixed wiring and lighting system,
heating system, air conditioning, smoke alarms, waste
disposal units or water softening equipment newly
installed at the date of the Insurance Certificate.

 

[TRANSPORTER]

Yep house was new when moved in, and covered by NHBC, Have been getting onto Barratts all the time, they themselves are quite helpful, the system was fitted by contractors employed by Barratts, they have been back several times but to no avail, everybody seems to be blaming each other for the faults
I mst agree in thinking that the boiler isnt getting up to temerature, surely two showers shouldnt run out the contents of the storage tank, I believe its a 150 ltr tank could be wrong though but that nmber seems to be in my memory, will have a look in the forum for the subjects mentioned and hopefully get back soon, bit difficult at the moment with a 5 year old rnning around wanting attention though so please bear with me if a little slow in getting back.
Also one question that I would like a ball park figure on and that is how long should my boiler take to get up to its temperature 81 degrees?
Cheers

 

[Garfeild]

Check the boiler stat (dial near on off switch) is turned to high.
Assuming inlet gas pressure is ok,its the fan which controls heat input,the pcb may be faulty(lots were,particularly the black ones) and not telling the fan to run at correct speed.Check the jumper pins on pcb are correct for the appliance.
The cylinder should be plenty for 2 showers,assuming the water is being heated correctly.
You really need to get onto Ideal to come back and look at it again.

 

[gas4you]

Everything is covered by the NHBC warranty for the first 2 years.

When you say you had an Ideal agent visit, do you mean an Ideal/Warmsure engineer or an actual agent.

Did he connect the boiler up to his laptop to check it?

If not it hasn't been checked properly

 

[TRANSPORTER]

ok guys here goes, shower uses 12 ltrs a minute (it took 5 secs to fill a litre jug), as for gas flow rate,

meter reading- 00730,72.0

after one minute with boiler heating water and central heating

meter reading- 00730,74.2

doesnt really mean alot to me as to how much its using, hope you guys can work out the figures.
The ideal boiler man I assume he was an engineer as he changed the fan did not connect up a laptop to the boiler he just changed the fan and checked the flow pipes for temperature, which only reached 52 degrees with all valves on radiators open, just howlong should a boiler take to get up to 81 degrees anyway.
I believe that ideal are coming out tomorrow so if poss id like to be up to speed with this info for his visit.
many thanks so far guys
Pete

 

[tonybhoy]

You need to do the gas rate over 2 minutes for a metric meter (E6).

Start the test after the boiler has been on 10 minutes.

 

[TRANSPORTER]

tonyboy, for a two minute reading on gas flow rate, just double last figures,

00730,72.0 start
00730,74.2 one minute
00730,77.0 two minutes

The meter was spinning round contsantly, whilst I was outside on my knees with a torch in the rain last night taking the reading and I was out there longer than the minute of the first reading, thught I would give you a minute reading first to aid in calculations.
Hope this helps

 

[tonybhoy]

I get that to 16KW/per hour.

 

[TRANSPORTER]

12kw boiler running 10 radiators so not alot of room for error, gas flow rate worked out to be pulling 47.5 into the boiler so wellwithin requirements, now looking at the timing controller that might be at fault, ie turning off the boiler before the water is up to temp, so now running hot water in the continuos on position to see if it heat and keep water at a temperature in the tank over a period of time, will let you know how this goes shortly thanks for the interest in this thread so far

 

[Eeejit]

what nos. is your ideal icos? is it a15,18 or what?
what are the approximate width and height of your cylinder?
900mm tall by 450 wide, should be the 120litre mark.
if you are running the shower for a total of 10mins at a rate of 12litres
a min. then as mr Agile suggested, you are using up all your hot water.
approximately, if the gas rate is 0.22cubic metres over 1 min,
then over a 2 min period,that would give 0.44 which gives a gross heat input of 14.21kw

 

[WabbitPoo]

It could just be that Ideal boilers are a pile of carp. Mine is. See my other post in this section. The pcb has been changed on mine 3 times and each time the boiler has been better at delivering HOT water (as opposed to quite warm or fairly hot). I am told the logic on the pcb gets improved from time to time.

Please dont let Barrats get away with this - threaten legal action if you have to. A lot of us are fed up with the "its not our fault" culture in our society. Someone needs to step up to the plate.