Anyone ever had a false positive testing for dead with...

[Alarm]

17 Where a test is being made simply to establish the presence or absence of voltage, the preferred method is to use a proprietary test lamp or 2-pole voltage detector suitable for the working voltage of the system rather than a multimeter.

We are going around in circles.
Rather than a multi meter is not a DO NOT USE ONE FOR THE PURPOSE.

So reading into the definition of 12 a and associating it with 17. There is NO REASON why a multi meter cannot be used.

That is all we are saying.
Its there in black and white.
I do, really do hear what your saying and respect your view.
Try ours.
Please.

 

[Spark123]

The guidance issued by the HSE says the preferred method is to use a proper tester for the job. If you want to ignore the preferred method then it is up to you to explain yourself if it goes pear shaped.
I'm pretty sure the NICEIC and other competent person schemes also require the use of 2 pole voltage indicators for isolation testing.

 

[Alarm]

So what would you do if you found the two pole detector broken in your tool bag and your multi meter was to hand?

Walk away?

It does not say DO NOT USE, it suggests a preferred method.
If you can prove competency then there is no issue.

We are really going around and around now. Lets not turn this into a GD farce.

I understand your stance, as I said before, but there is nothing saying not to.

 

[JohnW2]

Given that there are some pretty obscure scenarios which have been discussed, there's an aspect of this that we haven't touched on...

the preferred method is to use a proprietary test lamp or 2-pole voltage detector suitable for the working voltage of the system

Whatever else a 'proprietary test lamp' can be used for, it cannot be used for 'testing for dead' in the literal sense. The very most it can do is indicate that there is no 'very high' voltage present - but the circuit could certainly be far from 'dead' yet show no indication with a test lamp. I'm therefore far from convinced that such a device is necessarily capable of detecting voltages which could be dangerous, or even fatal ....

... I've just done some experiments with my Drummond test lamp (which uses a 15W 230V lamp), which I presume the HSE would accept as a 'preferred' tool. Even with extremely subdued lighting, the lowest voltage that it can convincingly detect is is the range 85-95V. At 80V, it is all-but-impossible to convince oneself (even with the extremely subdued lighting) that it is glowing - yet such a voltage could kill.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[Spark123]

So what would you do if you found the two pole detector broken in your tool bag and your multi meter was to hand?

Walk away?

I'd go and get another set of testers - I have a few of them floating about.
I do not keep them in a tool bag either - I have more respect for my instruments than that.

It does not say DO NOT USE, it suggests a preferred method.
If you can prove competency then there is no issue.

To me, using a multimeter for isolations is not showing competence, just a disregard of my training.

 

[Alarm]

To me, using a multimeter for isolations is not showing competence,

That is the point is it not.............. to you.
I cannot comment on your training and would not wish to.
I have been trained to use both methods.

If a multi meter is outlawed for the purpose we are talking about then I will of course act accordingly as it could lead to a prosecution. However it is not yet so, and is accepted AS A METHOD, not the preferred as I have already said a few times now.

Your not allowed to use them, fine - thats down to your work method statement.

I am , and there is nothing wrong nor illegal in this.

PS the tool bag was an example, I use a box and my meters and other types of test equipment are stored in another each in a protective case.