Are these cables safe? PAT tester says not....?

In reply to Winston1, who asked "Or what happens when someone borrows the kettle lead for a high load appliance that is not on for a short while." The answer is that the cable is fixed to the base on which the kettle sits. It cannot be removed.

We are all equally guilty of (incorrectly) calling a flexible cable with a C13 socket at one end a "kettle lead", as that, if I remember correctly, is the first household item which sported this type of connector.
 
Sponsored Links
In reply to Winston1, who asked "Or what happens when someone borrows the kettle lead for a high load appliance that is not on for a short while." The answer is that the cable is fixed to the base on which the kettle sits. It cannot be removed.

We are all equally guilty of (incorrectly) calling a flexible cable with a C13 socket at one end a "kettle lead", as that, if I remember correctly, is the first household item which sported this type of connector.

I thought kettles used C15/C16 ;)
 
Are we saying that a flex supplied with an appliance might fail a test because it could be used for something else?
 
Sponsored Links
The splitting of kettle and lead into two separate PAT testing items was what allowed us to get the numbers of tests per day required. One test but two labels. However they were given their own ID with the whole idea the lead and kettle could be separated and swapped around, the C15/16 and C15A/16A were the original kettle plug and sockets after the old round one, but latter the C13/14 started to be used. This caused a problem as by then traditionally these were used for computers typically with a 3 amp fuse.

Many of the leads used just 0.5 mm² cable and so it was important to ensure these only had 3 amp fuses fitted. In hind sight it was wrong to have a 10 amp socket on a cable unable to take that power, but in the beginning they could not be used with kettles so suppose no one thought about it. In the auto trade I noted again and again where a wire burnt out in a harness often in the harness it was OK only as it left the harness so no other cables to help remove the heat, did the cable burn, I would suspect the same with a moulded plug or socket, they can remove heat better than a rewire-able one, so there is some sense in saying moulded plugs can use thinner cable. However there is a difference between moulded and non re-useable the latter does not always have any material to help remove heat.

The other point is design current and fault current are also two different things, so with a 10A socket the design current is 10A even if the kettle takes 13A the design current is still 10A for the lead. A 13A fuse will rupture with a short circuit so will protect the cable, and however much we know kettles use more than 10A it is the kettle at fault not the cable. And for years there has been two preferred fuse sizes 3 and 13 amp so personally I see no real problem in fitting a 13 amp fuse into the plug with the cable shown.

If one was to be pedantic enough to fail the lead because it had a 13A instead of 10A fuse, you would have to also fail most kettles for drawing over 10A, some common sense must be used. I have just bought a new toy, a smart plug which measures power used, I also have a new kettle which meters out one cup of boiling water at a time, idea is one reduced time to boil and two less energy wasted, however I found that the unit uses over 13A common to see it show 3020 watt and the smart plug sensing overload would auto switch it off, tried other meters and yes it does use over 3kW, since only one cup of boiling water this slight overload is OK, and if not using a smart plug which trips out over 3 kW I would not have noticed. Rated at 3 kW but guess volts slightly over 230 hence overload. Even 3 kW is over 13A just at 230 volt.

I think some times we follow the rule book too closely, we are professionals and as such we should be able to judge if safe or not.
 
Reminds me of how 2KW fan heaters are often sold and wired in 0.75mm² and yet have a 13A fuse in the plug.
 
Well, if the lead is no more than 2m long and the plug is a moulded one, then .... !

That may be permitted, but still don't like the fact that such cables often get very warm and floppy.
 
That may be permitted, but still don't like the fact that such cables often get very warm and floppy.
That's a question of the suitability of the cable for the load, but I thought (perhaps incorrectly) your point was about it having a 13A fuse. A 5A fuse (which you would presumably regard as appropriate for the size of cable) would probably never blow with a 2kW load, but the question of the suitability of the cable for the load would remain.

Kind Regards, John
 
I think we may deduce that the BS7671 CCCs are very conservative.

A reputable manufacturer isn't going to fit cable that will melt.
 
I think we may deduce that the BS7671 CCCs are very conservative. A reputable manufacturer isn't going to fit cable that will melt.
Indeed.

What I'm not clear about Table 4F3A is what conductor temperature it relates to. The notes below the Table give de-rating factors for high ambient temperatures for 60°C, 90°C, 110°C and 150°C flexible cables!

Kind Regards, John
 
This also raises the question that if the CCCs given in Appendix 4 are very conservative then will cables ever reach their maximum rated temperature during normal usage?
 
This also raises the question that if the CCCs given in Appendix 4 are very conservative then will cables ever reach their maximum rated temperature during normal usage?
I asked that, explicitly or implicitly,the other day when we were talking about temperature correction of 'maximum Zs' figures (for ADS).

I strongly suspect that the answer to your question is 'no'. If that is correct, then it probably is not really necessary to correct Zs for the 'maximum rated temp' (which would never be achieved, except in 'overload' situations) but, rather, for the conductor temp that would result from the design current of the circuit - but, as I said before, I don't know how one would ascertain that temperature.

KInd Regards, John
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top