are these electrics compliant with part P?

[sparkwright]

PS - if the block is anything like the brick in our 60's ex-council house then I can understand the sparky not wanting to chase it. It's almost unchasable it's that 'kin hard. If not careful, the brick will just move in the mortar and push the plaster off the other side of the wall - with barely a scratch on the brick. Takes me hours to chase out a backbox, working carefully-but-purposefully with a scutch.

Yes, but no excuse to leave the cables proud of the finished plaster, he should have found an alternative route if that was the case.

And it doesn't alter the fact it's not in a safe zone.

If he HAD to chase the cables in that particular spot, he could perhaps have fitted a socket here, to create a cable zone, as it seems the socket circuit runs through here.

All in all clearly the work of someone who doesn't know what he's doing/doesn't care.

 

[EFLImpudence]

If he HAD to chase the cables in that particular spot, he could perhaps have fitted a socket here, to create a cable zone, as it seems the socket circuit runs through here.

Strictly speaking that would not be compliant; accessories do not create a safe zone for cables not connected to them.

 

[ericmark]

PS - if the block is anything like the brick in our 60's ex-council house then I can understand the sparky not wanting to chase it. It's almost unchasable it's that 'kin hard. If not careful, the brick will just move in the mortar and push the plaster off the other side of the wall - with barely a scratch on the brick. Takes me hours to chase out a backbox, working carefully-but-purposefully with a scutch.

Yes, but no excuse to leave the cables proud of the finished plaster, he should have found an alternative route if that was the case.

And it doesn't alter the fact it's not in a safe zone.

If he HAD to chase the cables in that particular spot, he could perhaps have fitted a socket here, to create a cable zone, as it seems the socket circuit runs through here.

All in all clearly the work of someone who doesn't know what he's doing/doesn't care.

I know my son bought an electric tool to chase and it would grind through brick without a problem, he said that the time saved it was well worth the money the only problem was as one reached the ceiling it would not finish the job so last bit was down to hammer and chisel, he also had a tool for sinking sockets that was not as good, but it did help and left a flat base easier to mount the socket box.

But these tools cost and although an electrician who is a sole trader for many years would likely have them, those just starting with sole trading or those who worked for a company may not have them.

I remember the argument I had with a boss who wanted me to buy tools to speed up the work, I said if I don't buy them you will have to pay me over time to finish the job on time, if I do buy them you will not, so why should I buy the tools, if you want me to work faster then you buy the tools for me to use. However that idea seems not to sink in to bosses brains.

As to plaster depth it is hard sometime to work out what is going to happen, I have been caught out, fitted back boxes having been told wall to be plastered then found plaster board was used and my boxes too deep. All it needs is some random comment and you get unexpected results, the wife stating "I am going to do this room next and get it all re-plastered" she may be thinking of in 5 years time, but electrician thinks going to be re-plastered so I don't need to worry.

It happens a lot, I remember one job where the lady of the house was flitting around the electrician all day, asking if he could do that, or this to which he often answered yes. However when he presented his bill with all the extras included she wished she had kept her mouth shut.

From the pictures and comments it would seem a lazy fair electrician, however we only hear one side, comments which seem at the time nothing can result in the unexpected, simple things like keep it as cheap as you can, I'm strapped for cash, should in theroy not produce poor workmanship, but some people think they are doing what the customer asked when they cut corners to reduce costs.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

simple things like keep it as cheap as you can, I'm strapped for cash, should in theroy not produce poor workmanship

Nor lawbreaking.

 

[shardy]

thanks for you replies folks. The internal brick walls are extremely hard but it didn't take him long to chase in and like others have said it should've been put in a cable safe zone. There is also easily enough room to chase it in 1 cm deeper. I have put a review of their work on Central London Lofts Facebook page. Its true we have to be very careful what we say online etc.
I spoke to a solicitor who says normally we would write to the company using a pre-action protocol but as they have had many chances to put things right over several months, the only option might be litigation which is time consuming and expensive.
They are members of WhichTraders so we will probably try their mediation service first. They were removed from Trust Mark shortly into our job and have never been members of Federation of Master Builders despite claiming to be.
Rather than chase the electrician we are holding the loft company responsible as our contract is with them and every tradesmen they brought in did shoddy and non compliant work.

 

[shardy]

This extractor fan didn't have any ducting, it just goes straight to the ceiling joists, is that within regulation?
The electrician says that meets regulation because it is close to soffit and moist air will escape. (its about 33 cm from soffit)
I read that moist air should not go direct in to ceiling joists as it will cause condensation.
I've also included more examples of the socket work

 

[SimonH2]

Doesn't matter. Our obscene libel laws do not recognise truth - if you damage someone's reputation then it is libel, even if what you have said is entirely true.

Actually, truth is a defence to a libel claim. But it is not a complete get-out.
One example would be where a paper prints a report that "Mr Smith of Acacia Avenue was convicted of ..." There is no libel whatsoever against the Mr Smith found guilty because it's a statement of truth - but there would be libel against the Mr Smith who lives down the other end of Acacia Avenue. This is one that has actually happened.
If what you said was actually true in general, then there'd be no reporting of court cases because all the "true" statements made would be libelous to the convicted felon.

... and have never been members of Federation of Master Builders despite claiming to be.

And have you taken this up with Trading Standards adn FMB, because that IS fraud.

Rather than chase the electrician we are holding the loft company responsible as our contract is with them and every tradesmen they brought in did shoddy and non compliant work.

Correct. You have no contract with the sparks, only with the Loft Company

This extractor fan didn't have any ducting, it just goes straight to the ceiling joists, is that within regulation?
The electrician says that meets regulation because it is close to soffit and moist air will escape. (its about 33 cm from soffit)

He knows damn well that's a load of *******s and he just doesn't care and CBA to do the job properly.

I read that moist air should not go direct in to ceiling joists as it will cause condensation.

Correct, you'll have the loft dripping with water. It will start with white mould, and before you know it the timbers will start rotting.

All in all, a bodge job. BTW - how did you pay, was any of it by credit card ?

 

[shardy]

thanks for reply SimonH2, very helpful. We paid in stages via bank transfer

 

[SimonH2]

We paid in stages via bank transfer

Which means you have no bargaining power with the company. They have your money, and the only way to get any back involves court action - which they'l be calculating few people will be interested in.

Do contact both Trading Standards and FMB. If they are claiming membership when they aren't then that's (as our friends across the pond say) a slam dunk of an offence. If it's on any of their promotional material then they have no defence to breaches of consumer protection law.
The rest is a matter of taking it up with Trading Standards in general so the company is "on their list of people to keep an eye on", and most definitely whichever scheme the electrician is a member of.

BTW - did you actually get any certificate for the electrical work ? If not then that alone is a breach of BS7671 and scheme membership rules.

 

[Nozzle]

View attachment 99625

Did you ask for the the light switch to be moved a few inches to the left as it was not initially central in the pillar?

Nozzle

 

[bhm1712]

Just don't pay for the work....simple and guaranteed to get a result.

Edit: just seen you've already paid.

Never ever pay upfront for anything and certainly never ever pay the majority of it off before works have been competed correctly. Any contractor who won't work without payment upfront or in stages is simply not worth bothering with and is almost guaranteed to be a cowboy.

 

[ericmark]

They are members of WhichTraders so we will probably try their mediation service first. They were removed from Trust Mark shortly into our job and have never been members of Federation of Master Builders despite claiming to be.

I would think the Federation of Master Builders would likely take the company to court as clearly they don't want a bad name.
As to Trust Mark still worth contacting as they were members when the work started.
WhichTraders not a clue how they work, it will be interesting to see their reply.

My daughter used some guy who was a member of some internet group some name like "Trusted Traders" or "Rated Tradesmen" but can't remember the exact name, after complaining we realised it was nothing more than an advertising firm and they were not the least bit interested in the workmanship of their members. We realised too late that being a member of many of these actually means they are poor tradesmen as good ones don't need to advertise with a group.

Simply removing some one from their books if the work is substandard is not really much help. And clearly firms like WhichTraders need to do more if they are going to work in the long term. Please keep us updated on how you get on.

 

[chivers67]

This extractor fan didn't have any ducting, it just goes straight to the ceiling joists, is that within regulation?
The electrician says that meets regulation because it is close to soffit and moist air will escape. (its about 33 cm from soffit)
I read that moist air should not go direct in to ceiling joists as it will cause condensation.
I've also included more examples of the socket work

Did you receive any form of installation certificate with the person's name on it?

522.03.01 A wiring system shall be selected and erected so that no damage is caused by condensation or ingess of water during installation, use and maintenance. This is clearly not the cause with an un-vented Fan.

One could also refer to Section 8(iii) of the on site guide, i'd hazard a guess this chap doesn't own one though.

Taken the dashes out and replaced with dots !

 

[EFLImpudence]

on site guide, i'd hazard a guess this chap doesn't own one though.

If he doesn't, that would be the only thing he's done right.

 

[shardy]

thanks for replies everyone. The electrician hasn't replied when I asked about the certificate he promised, and we are awaiting a reply from Central London Lofts regarding electrics. They are coming back to sort the roof out so hopefully they will do something about the electrics.
I didn't ask for the switch to be moved Nozzle. The switch was already there and he chased in to the right of the switch and created a spur of the existing socket