Are these good for a novice?

[mk2phil]

I'm planning to install some new rads and consequently change the existing pipework from microbore to 15mm. I'm planning to use yorkshire fittings, and a friend mentioned that you can get a tool specifically to help with the fitting of them.

He described it as a set of heated pliers that heat the solder inside the ring, thus doing away for the need of a naked flame, which sounds easier to me. He also said they can be used on 15 and 22mm fittings.

I've never installed soldered joints before and this sounds like an eaiser method. Have any of you guys ever used them and are they any good? I think I like the idea of being able to solder one ring at a time, as I understand with naked flame you need to make all the connections at the same time because of the heat dispertion - i.e. with a 'T' piece, all 3 fittings need to have copper pipe in place before apply the heat.

Does anyone know where I can get them from as my mate said he saw them in B&Q but I've yet to find them.

I'm aware that a plumbing pro will probably turn his nose up at them, but I'm a novice so looking for easiest method!!!!

Cheers guys.

 

[gas4you]

Never used them but have heard stories that they aren't much good.

BES do them and possibly screwfix I think.

 

[JohnD]

Use a gas torch. practice on a few offcuts of copper pipe in the shed, you'll soon get the hang of it. Have some spare solder so you can touch the joint if you have trouble filling it right. If you see a big lump of solder on the underside of the joint, you have probably got it too hot. Solder in a lump isn't in the joint so the joint is suspect. If you have a suspect joint it's easier to re-make it straight away than to wait till it leaks. If you take a soldered joint apart, re-flux the pipe and heat it to melt the old solder, then quickly wipe it round with your clean dry cotton rag. surprisingly, this will make it smooth and shiny, and will help the next fitting to solder well. I know an engineer who always tins and wipes the ends of copper pipes before soldering them, takes extra time but gives great reliability.

A few tips:

trial fit to make sure it's right
Cleanliness is vital
Wire wool on the inside and the outside surfaces, then polish off on a clean cotton rag
Cleanliness is vital
A light, but very thorough, smear of flux on both surfaces
Cleanliness is vital
Heat until you see a ring of solder all round, then stop, make sure it doesn't move until it's gone set (you will see the shininess go cloudy, then a moment more)
If you have several to do, prepare them all first, but make sure the later ones don't move while you're doing the early ones
If you get water in the pipes, they will not re-solder as the steam will spoil it, so have a few compression fittings ready in case of bad joints.
Did I mention that cleanliness was vital?

I'm sure others will have more tips

 

[mk2phil]

Thanks John,

how do you clean the inside of a 15mm fitting with wire wool though - you can barely get your little finger in there..!

If I'm taking a soldered joint apart, I heat it again to melt the old solder, pull the joint apart, then wipe the pipe again with the cloth to remove the excess solder? Or will the excess solder be smothered around the pipe, and this what you're referring to as the 'tin and wipe' method your mate uses?

And if I need to add a little extra solder from the reel, should I reheat the joint then apply the solder, or heat the solder wire before I touch it to the joint?

Thanks again John, you've been really helpful mate.

 

[JohnD]

You need smaller fingers or screw the wool up.

you can also get a little wire brush that goes in the fitting. But they carry dirt so you have to be extra careful cleaning it.

When you take an old joint apart, get it hot enough to melt the solder. You will find that if you try to wipe the solder off, you can't. It will stick to the pipe not your rag.
Yes, this will end up being the same as the "tin and wipe." It will only stick to CLEAN bright copper that has been lightly fluxed.

Touch the solder wire to the joint when you start to see the solder run. You can touch it in advance but must heat the fitting not the solder so that it doesn't melt until it's ready to run inside (it is drawn into the joint by capillarity). Do it all in one go, don't reheat it unless you think it has gone wrong. when you have got the hang of it you can move to end-feed fittings which are cheaper.

 

[Gasguru]

You don't use wire wool for a start.

Use an abrasive cleaning strip ie silicon carbide cloth for the pipe ends and pipe fitting brushes http://www.cleanfit.com/ft-cb.htm

You won't need to take apart the fittings (unless you are joining onto existing pipework). If you do I'd use Everflux on the joint. You often need to apply flux and solder as you twist off the old fitting with pump pliers.

Use a Superfire torch and Laco flux. If you can afford it, buy a Benzomatic torch as well - it can give a small flame - ideal for microbore and 15mm. Get yourself a small dentist mirror to check the solder has run all around the fitting. Also a decent heat mat. Allways wipe the joints (before the joint finally cools down) with a damp rag to get rid of any remaining flux.

Heat the pipe and fitting moving the torch around. Too much or too little heat will cook the flux and the solder will not run properly.

You should not need to add any additional solder to solder ring fittings. On end feed though heat the pipe and fitting, take the torch away and apply the solder to the joint. The solder must melt on the joint without the flame. If necessay re-apply the flame and repeat the process.

Practice first and take your time.

 

[TicklyT]

Keep everything clean and dry.

Don't touch the pipe end after cleaning it. Solder doesn't stick too well to greasy fingerprints.

'Scotchbrite' pan scourers and the like (used dry) are useful for cleaning up pipes.
Avoid 'Brillo' pads though - they are impregnated with soap.

Let the solder 'set' before wiping off the flux afterwards, but do it while the joint is still hot.