Are Vaillant Condensing boiler's worth it?

[peca27]

Hi all

I had a combi Vaillant TurboMAX 824 fitted 3/4 yrs ago, apart from a diverter valve change, it's been running well. It cost me £700ish inc. flue + timer.

My mate is wanting to fit a boiler now, I know he's going to need a condensing boiler cos of the new regs. Therefore, if he goes for the equivalent boiler i've got (only going to have 7no rads) he's looking at £1100 for the boiler, flue + timer

Now that's alot of £££££££'s........is it worth it or should he look at something like a Worcester Bosch, Vokera, Veissmann? He wants a good boiler that's gonna last, but £1100 is alot.

Not too keen on Biasi, Potterton, Saunier Duval, Baxi + Glow-worm.......unless I hear otherwise.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Basecoat]

Hi all

I had a combi Vaillant TurboMAX 824 fitted 3/4 yrs ago, apart from a diverter valve change, it's been running well. It cost me £700ish inc. flue + timer.

My mate is wanting to fit a boiler now, I know he's going to need a condensing boiler cos of the new regs. Therefore, if he goes for the equivalent boiler i've got (only going to have 7no rads) he's looking at £1100 for the boiler, flue + timer

Now that's alot of £££££££'s........is it worth it or should he look at something like a Worcester Bosch, Vokera, Veissmann? He wants a good boiler that's gonna last, but £1100 is alot.

Not too keen on Biasi, Potterton, Saunier Duval, Baxi + Glow-worm.......unless I hear otherwise.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Hi "peca"

I have vaillant ecomax 828E condensing boiler nearly three years old. I have had no trouble with it. Really works so well. It wasn't all that expensive but its worth the extra cost.

I wouldn't touch potterton with a barge pole. (my opinion). I upgraded from potterton to vaillant.

The only other make which is highly recommended is viessman. I believe they are very expensive but RollsRoyce of domestic boilers.

 

[croydoncorgi]

There's always the Vitodens 100. Viessmann Lite for UK!

 

[ACOperson]

Croydoncorgi, I need a physically small heating only boiler for something I'm doing, I normally use the Vaillant Ecomax Pro 18 or 28E for jobs like this, but I've just noticed the Vitodens 100 compact.

The brochure says its only for open vented, but surely its OK for sealed too (like the Ecomax Pro range). Have you used any of these compact ones on your installations?

Cheers

 

[lorraine]

I can't see why vitodens 100 wouldn't work with a sealed system.

the only thing the boiler would see is increased pressure of the water and I'm sure its tested to more than 6 bar. Although it doesn't mention it in the manual.

Lorraine

 

[bender]

I bought a Vaillant EcoTec pro28 in January for £784 + digital timer for £48 for a total of £832, including flu.

 

[peca27]

bender, the £850 price you mention........does it inc. VAT?
The £1100 price I was quoting inc. VAT + is therefore approx £900 exc. VAT.

basecoat, what does 'It wasn't all that expensive ' mean? did you get it for approx the price I'm getting qouted?

Is the 828 a 'bigger capacity' boiler than the 824 boiler.....if so shouldn't it be more expensive?

 

[bender]

Yes that price includes vat.

I did a lot of web searching for good prices, I was then recommended to a plumbers by a plumber in the family and found that they also had a website.
Their price for the boiler I was interested in was comparable to other internet shops prices that didn't include the flu.
Also the shop was only 10 miles from me so I was able to drive there and pick it up.

The site is www.compass-plumbing.co.uk

(I've just had a look and seen that their prices are now cheaper - £799.30 incl vat will now buy the EcoTec pro28 + digital timer),

 

[cowboyplumber]

Lorraine,
A little learning is a dangerous thing.
You are in no way qualified or experienced enough to offer advice on boiler/gas work.
The compact boiler is just that- a boiler. It does not contain a prv, an expansion vessel or pump. These will easily add up to the cost of the system boiler...
"You are SURE IT is tested to 6 bar- THOUGH IT DOES NOT SAY SO IN THE MANUAL"
Are you stupid? I really, really want you to think about that question..
I know the answer.

On the general question of viessmann. They are beautiful machines, totally unrivalled in design.
Sadly they are also a complete swine to commision, the technical and sales support is excreable and the supply chain is crap.
Because of these problems I have ceased to install viessmann despite being an approved installer.

 

[Agile]

I am also a little worried when I see Lorraine posting "advice" as if she was an experienced gas engineer.

In reality I gather that she has not yet completed the basic qualifications which would enable her to be listed as a CORGI operative in her employers firm.

To be CORGI registered as an individual she will need many more hours of experience.

I am not wanting to be negative but just to set the record straight. If I was a consumer reading "advice" I would want to know something about the credentials of those posting. If I owned this web site I would want those posting to quote their CORGI numbers!

Tony

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I am interested to hear that you have stopped installing Viessmann boilers even though you are an approved installer.

I had a long chat with a less pushy and fairly technical sales rep at interbuild who is based in central southern area. He was very honest but did little to disagree with my allegations that the boilers are difficult to buy. His main answers were that they are a new entrant to the market and with most of the merchants being only a couple of groups they had only succeeded to get their boilers into PTS so far. I did feel that he was the kind of person that I could work with but he is not in my area!

Tony

 

[cowboyplumber]

Tony, viessmann are available in a few merchants 'oop north'. Hargreaves, plumbase, pts to name but three.
If you can get them. Problem is, nobody wants to install em, because they are such a nightmare to set up, so they give up after the first one. Sooo, the merchants no longer hold em in stock, so they become virtually impossible to obtain.
Straw that broke this camels back was spending hours with a customer, selling her a viessmann, only to be told that there would be none in the country for at least two weeks!
Problem with the company is that everything has to be approved by herr martin viessmann and his henchman back at the eagle's lair in the vaterland, which means incomprehensible ultra-minimalist installation manual, coupled with a tech support staff with little experience of their own product and a service engineer crew of 2 (TWO!).
As I said it's a shame, but the hassle is just not worth it.

 

[Agile]

My guy said that the warranty service was covered by their higher level approved installers and usually got there within 24 hrs. He had a stock of common parts and would go himself if no one else could get there.

I have never heard that they were more difficult to set up than any other premix band A. The manual for the 40 kW Viessmann I have in stock looks OK.

Would there be any mileage in me setting up as one of their higher level approved installers or are they still so much of a minority that its not worth it?

Tony

 

[cowboyplumber]

It's venting the heat exchanger that presents the problem. It's a fairly complex procedure and it puts most people off. Also they always seem to be undergassed at the inlet even when the supply is sized properly.
It's the lack of support that did it for me. You are selling a premium product and you look a right 'nana when it wont work. The price is on the high side so your margins can't be that high.
I make the same money sticking in Vokera heat packs. I know the machines, I get the support, so in my opinion viessmann are just not worth the effort...
It's all up to you, I do know that Viessmann are looking for 30% of the UK market and are going to be big in solar, but I'm just totally hacked off with the human side of things.
PS: NEVER TRUST A SALESMAN

 

[Agile]

The HE is a coil with a horizontal axis.

To fill it you need to produce the flow from one end only. You close say the return and vent it to atmosphere. Then fill under some pressure at the flow from the flow connector until it exits at the return end with no further air trapped then close venting valve and fill system in the other direction.

Its the same procedure that is needed for any modern boiler with that same orientation of a coiled HE.

I dont see it as any problem?

Tony

 

[cowboyplumber]

In theory, the is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.