Which Consumer Magazine Best Boilers

[Richard107]

I'm planning to get a new combination boiler installed and have just read the latest Which consumer magazine test report.

Their Top 5 based on efficiency, power use, emisions, durability, features and ease of use are:

1. POTTERTON - Gold C24 HE
2. VAILLANT - ecoTEC plus 824
3. VAILLANT - ecoTEC plus 831
4. POTTERTON - Promax Combi 28 HE plus
5. SAUNIER DUVAL - Thema Condens F24E

Glow Worm, Baxi, Worcester and Ideal models were also reviewed and come in between positions 6 - 13.

All boilers were extensively laboratory tested (including running them at full capacity for 5 minutes for 2,920 times to represent a year's usage !!!) and fitted, checked etc by a Corgi registered installer.

They also state that Potterton has an above average reliability rating (researched via a survey with Which members) and that the Saunier model is very quiet (which is important to me as I'm in a small flat so noises travel).

I'm thinking of either buying the Potterton Gold C24 HE or the Saunier Duval Thema Condense F24E as they both are similarly priced and fitted with timers.

Your thoughts on the above Top 5 would be appreciated.

 

[peca27]

Well i'm chuffed as i've got a Vaillant 828 at home + a 824 at my rental property............but don't they mention the diverter valves?

 

[ChrisR]

The latest Vaillants are rid of those godforsaken diverter valves!
Vaillant, Gloworm and SD are all owned by the same company. They have a lot of similarities and share company resources.

>>I'd be interested if anyone could say what he differences between them actually are. Anyone??

You'll find the same in the baxi/potterton range - same boiler, different name, warranty period and price.

SD used to have a bad reputation, for reasons which all, I believe, no longer apply, but there is still resistance to using them.

I should think they would all work fine for a year - which doesn't tell you much! After 6 years working on varyingly dirty real heating systems, differences will start to show up. By which time there will be new models out!

The test would be worth reading but I've always been annoyed with "Which?" reports - they never seem expert enough with what they're testing.


Not many people wouldn't prefer a combi with higher output for HW than 24kW, at least 28-30 if not more, as long as you have decent mains pressure.

Timer - a programmable thermostat is much better than a simple built-in timer. Some boilers have more sophisticated controls which will save money long term.

 

[Gasguru]

Oh dear another Which reader.

"Which" carry out totally unscientific tests and often come up with meaningless results.

Do you remember the printer fiasco a few years ago. I seem to remember Epson products weren't included in the review since they wouldn't provide "free" samples (probably took offence to the mediocre test standards). The magazine published printer recomendations but didn't include one of the largest manufacturers the world. Made the whole exercise invalid.

I suspect this has happened in this case and is therefore not particulary representable of the products avialable.

As Chris said testing in a laboratory to replicate a years use is nonsense.
Customers want to know how reliable they are in the real world - Which should talk to boiler repair engineers to get the real story.

The general opinion on reliability would appear to be Vaillant since they are best of a bad bunch; the more unusual makes tend to be higher priced and out of the budget.


Don't get hung up about efficiency and emmisions figures; manufacturers abuse the publics lack of knowledge and publish a variety of misleading figures.

The only boilers that tend to be a little more efficient are those with weather compensation. However this effect (and saving) can be similarly achieved by the running the boiler radiator temperature at the lowest possible temperature to heat the house. (and only turning it to maximum when its snowing!).

Overall savings on a typical house are going to be fairly minimal since most condensing boilers are very intolerant to a lack of servicing. Some service kits (gaskets/seals etc) can be around the £20 mark and the service is no 5 minute job.

Correct and thorough installation is just (and sometimes more) important than boiler make.

 

[JohnD]

Do you remember the printer fiasco a few years ago. I seem to remember Epson products weren't included in the review since they wouldn't provide "free" samples (probably took offence to the mediocre test standards).

Then you "seem to remember" wrong.

The Consumer In the Street is short of independent advice.

There's the manufacturer's claims, there's comment in magazines which are almost entirely funded by advertisements... and there's "Which" that strives to be honest, accurate and unbiased; won't accept advertising, and buys its products on the open market, anonymously, so there's no influence by the manufacturers and (unlike, for example, road-tests of cars) they aren't testing one that's been carefully prepared and buffed up to give a good impression.

"Which" carry out totally unscientific tests

this is simply not true.

Correct and thorough installation is just (and sometimes more) important than boiler make.

I have no argument with that... but should the well-informed buyer choose a good-performing and reliable boiler and have it correctly installed? Or through ignorance, a poor-performing and unreliable one?

 

[Gasguru]

JohnD wrote:

Then you "seem to remember" wrong.

If I'm really bored I shall dig out the article - I stopped bothering with the magazine after that since they were cleary unrepresentative of all the products in the market.

Similary "Which" have campaigned recently about printer ink charges - fine but where exactly are the manufacturers supposed to make there profits when you can pick up printers for £30.00?

Why are they not being honest and explaining the ink price is subsidising the true cost of the printer. If the public/dealers didn't demand cheap technology the profit could be made on the initial purchase of the printer. "Which" just see this as another way of bolstering their own sales.

How about the boiler servicing report not so long ago. That was clearly nonsense - totaly unrealistic figures were printed that didn't highlight the differing scenarios of day to day working around the country.

 

[JohnD]

JohnD wrote:

Then you "seem to remember" wrong.

If I'm really bored I shall dig out the article

£1 to your favourite charity from me if it supports your claim that "I seem to remember Epson products weren't included in the review since they wouldn't provide "free" samples"

 

[ollski]

So if a component failed in 3 months of usage do they test another one to see if the same component fails in a similar timespan?

 

[JohnD]

For reliability ratings, "Which" usually canvass many thousands of members and publish patterns per manufacturer, breakdowns rate per appliance over a typical lifespan. Reliability per model is not much good as models change so fast that you would never have good data for a product that was on current sale.

For example, in Dishwashers, Bosch score best, and on ISPs, NTL score worst.

The Boilers report did not include a reliability survey,so they made the point that boilers last a long time and called their test a "Limited Durability Trial" where they ran 2,920 "on - full power for 5 minutes - off" cycles on each boiler, and noted that two of the Glow Worms developed a minor fault after 300 cycles, and the casings of the two Ideal boilers were showing signs of wear and tear. You can form your own opinion on whether the same defect appearing on both the boilers from the same manufacturer after quite a short time is a coincidence or not.

 

[doitall]

All a tad like rouge traders really.

Not representative of the industry at all.

Pure hype to sell programs and mags

 

[simond]

How the Consumers Association can claim to be impartial and promoting fair play to the consumer is beyond me. What about their sharp practice advertising, free subscriptions for a limited period then full billing. Unwanted mailshots and inserts. They are hypocritical in my opinion.

I would take their findings with a very big pinch of salt. And talking of salt, the only domestic appliances I have found to be reliable are Miele; Bosch haven't turned in a very good show in my house.

To follow Chris' thread there are actually very few parts shared across all three Vaillant brands. If you open up a Glow worm virtually nothing inside is recognisable as coming out of a Vaillant, the ecoMAX Pro is partly built from SD bits. We don't promote ecoMAX Pro for that reason.

If you want a mass market boiler with good components, Viessmann seem to use mainly their own parts. No Italian primary heat exchangers in their stuff.

 

[gazthepottertonengineer]

I'm planning to get a new combination boiler installed and have just read the latest Which consumer magazine test report.

Their Top 5 based on efficiency, power use, emisions, durability, features and ease of use are:

1. POTTERTON - Gold C24 HE
2. VAILLANT - ecoTEC plus 824
3. VAILLANT - ecoTEC plus 831
4. POTTERTON - Promax Combi 28 HE plus
5. SAUNIER DUVAL - Thema Condens F24E

Glow Worm, Baxi, Worcester and Ideal models were also reviewed and come in between positions 6 - 13.

All boilers were extensively laboratory tested (including running them at full capacity for 5 minutes for 2,920 times to represent a year's usage !!!) and fitted, checked etc by a Corgi registered installer.

They also state that Potterton has an above average reliability rating (researched via a survey with Which members) and that the Saunier model is very quiet (which is important to me as I'm in a small flat so noises travel).

I'm thinking of either buying the Potterton Gold C24 HE or the Saunier Duval Thema Condense F24E as they both are similarly priced and fitted with timers.

Your thoughts on the above Top 5 would be appreciated.

Weird that the 2 Pottys listed came 1st and 4th and the Baxi came even lower when they are identical boilers except for the Badges

 

[fitz1]

gaz, what about the main. is it constucted the same as baxi.

 

[doitall]

The whole point as I see it, if your going to test a boiler. Then if that boiler breaks down you should start the test again with another identical boiler.

You cannot possibly judge just one of anything, with an identical test a few weeks later you could expect a different result.

 

[gazthepottertonengineer]

gaz, what about the main. is it constucted the same as baxi.

Yes Main is the same as well just with a differant badge on the front and is aimed at the budget end of the market wich is why you only get a 1 year warranty with it