Astracast ROK sink - Avoid like the plague

[megawatt]

Hi all,

I thought I'd share with you all the problems I'm having with an Astracast ROK sink (simulated granite style).

It's been installed in our kitchen now for about 12 months and has developed a hairline crack in the corner (photos below) which is getting larger.

http://www.effectivesoftware.co.uk/astracastnightmare/rok1.jpg
http://www.effectivesoftware.co.uk/astracastnightmare/scene.jpg

The sink was examined on delivery (was fine) and was fitted by me so I know there has been no impact issues etc. and the sink has a 20 year guarantee on quality.

I sent Astracast the photo and they have just informed me that, in their opinion, they consider the damage to be as a result of impact/third party and not from a manufacturing defect.

This is despite there being absolutely no evidence in the photograph of impact damage and assurance from me that none has occurred ... The daft customer services lady even suggested that it could have been caused by children which doesn't say much for the standard of their product but doesn't apply in our case as we don't have any

I am, as many know, an ex-aircraft engineer and, having spent many years examining aircraft airframes (as a structural engineer) have come across more examples of stress fractures than I care to remember and this is a classic. The fact that Astracast are claiming that this has been caused by me makes their 20 year guarantee pretty much worthless and I would be interested to hear from anyone who has actually had a replacement item under their guarantee as I doubt there will be many

I will, of course, now be pursuing this through the courts but thought I'd share the experience of this company (who I believed were good but now consider shoddy) with everyone in an attempt to shame them into doing the right thing and honour their guarantee rather than trying to shaft the small guy.

The one powerful thing about the internet is that the small guy can make a difference and, if they do not do the right thing here, I will ensure that everytime anyone Google's Astracast or ROK they get to see my story and pictures.

I'll let you all know how I get on.

MW

 

[EliteHeat]

I will ensure that everytime anyone Google's Astracast or ROK they get to see my story and pictures.

How do you do that?

 

[megawatt]

Google's web crawling algorithm is a closely guarded thing and there's quite a lot of detail to this but, in essence, by optimising the content such that the search engine ranks it high on the keywords of interest (astracast and ROK in this case).

A major interest of mine fortunately

 

[ChrisR]

Go for it Megawatt. I too would like to hear how you could have caused a fracture like that without some impact damage. Spent quite a while as an undergrad with the red penetrating ink and the white spray-on stuff - what DID they call it....?

I haven't done it, but I believe making small-claims online is easy now. You will of course be claiming for the cost of removal, replacement etc. How old is it, by the way?

 

[megawatt]

It would have been easier to accept if they had sent an expert to see the thing but to make a judgement solely on the basis of the photo shows that they do not take their guarantee seriously

I agree, how on earth they can say that I could have caused such a crack in an otherwise well manufactured sink without other signs is astounding ... Or they are not confident in the quality of their product.

I used to do a lot of dye penetration testing (non-destructive testing) in my early days ... Best bit was the area cleaning solvent, particularly in enclosed spaces

The sink has been installed for 12 months.

 

[ChrisR]

Oh yeah, that solvent.

But there was a funny name I've forgotten. Simple days - no neutron diffraction stuff...

 

[gas4you]

Unfortunatley although you are in the right this is a general modern day problem when manufacturers offer long term warranty. They are not usually worth the paper they are printed on because of exclusion clauses etc

 

[megawatt]

I've included the email trail I've had today with Astracast customer services (as I can't quite believe it myself) and so you can see what they're like (read bottom upwards) ...

Me
Stress behaviour is no different and the stresses caused by expanding worktops can be significant on a sink with an inherent manufacturing defect ... I do realise, though, that I'm obviously wasting my time attemtping to reason with you and your lack of understanding of the science.

You have seen the picture, the crack is at the rear rightmost aspect of the sink and the sink is set in 40mm oak worktops on a bed of silicone.

How on earth do you think we could have exerted such a considerable force or movement on the sink to have caused it to crack in this way and with no other damage to the sink?

You are quite clearly attempting to make whatever statements you can to avoid having to honour the terms of the guarantee.

I fully expected your response and have contacted the trading standards office who have advised that in situations such as this we should jointly commission (and pay for) an independant surveyor to report on the damage and give their expert opinion as to the probable cause.

Their decision should be binding and whoever the findings go against should pick up the total cost.

Whilst I realise that the cost of the report will probably exceed the cost of the sink, I am confident in my position regarding the cause of the crack and therefore happy to proceed in this way.

Please be advised that, should you decline to participate in their recommended course of action, I will commission the report anyway and present the findings in the small claims court where I will be claiming not only for the cost of a replacement sink, the cost of the report but also for the cost of professional services to undertake the removal of the existing item and fitting of the replacement together with remedial work which will be required to the oak worktops ... This will be significantly higher than a replacement item.

Trading standards have advised that failure to cooperate would be considered unreasonable behaviour on your part.

I would suggest that, prior to this, you supply me with details of your escalation procedure so that I may discuss this with someone in authority.


Them
Aircraft are subject to many forces that can might cause a stress fracture.

However, we are not talking about stress fractures on aircraft parts we are talking about a crack in a composite sink manufactured in Granite Rok. The two materials and functions are entirely different.

I maintain that the crack on the edge of your sink is consistent with third party damage and cannot just have appeared all by itself without some considerable force or movement. This is not a manufacturing fault.

Me
I'm afraid I must disagree with your assessment.

Stress fractures by their very nature rarely present themselves for a significant period of time and only then become apparent due to a combination of environmental factors such as (in this case possibly) expansion/contraction of worktops for example.

I have seen numerous instances of stress cracks (on aircraft) which have not become apparent for over a decade or more and were then only discovered when I carried out a process of dye penetration testing ... A routine maintenance activity on airframes.

Besides, why do you offer a 20 year guarantee if you are not prepared to accept that defects often do not become apparent until much later in the product's lifespan?

As I've said, I know that this product has not been subjected to unintentional misuse or damage, on the contrary it has been extremely lightly used by my wife and I and well taken care of, if we had caused the damage I would not be contacting you.

Them
Our company is happy to replace any product for a manufacturing or material fault. However, the guarantee does not cover unintentional misuse or damage.

The crack in your sink has appeared over a year since installation and had it occurred during the manufacturing process or transit/installation damage, it would have presented itself much sooner.

 

[gas4you]

Where did you buy it from? How about approaching them for a replacement and then let them deal with the rep

 

[megawatt]

AlarisAvenue (online).

They have been very helpful to date, though I haven't been asking them for a replacement

Good thought though.

 

[sanj.varah]

just a thought (from a fellow aero engineer! - well gas turbines but anyway).

is there anyway the expansion in your oak worktop has manipulated the sink slightly? I know this is unlikely as the sink "sits on" but was just a thought. I was considering buying one of their sinks but after reading that, i think i'll give a miss and stick with franke.

sanj

 

[croydoncorgi]

If these turkeys have blown out their own warranty deal (by retreat into the small print) I guess you'll have to go after the supplier you actually have a contract with - Alaris Avenue. Otherwise any small claim will be rejected due to no contract.

 

[megawatt]

Hi Sanj,

In my early career I was airframe/engines (RAF) and had the pleasure of dealing with the complexities of both specialisms ... You just can't beat the thrill of ground running a tied down Tornado with both engines running at max chat (other than flying in it of course).

I did suggest to the fools at Astracast that, if the sink had a weakness, it may be possible for the expansion of the oak to open up the crack as it is stuck down with silicone ... Shouldn't affect a good unit though ... Unless the sinks are indeed crap.

They aren't interested in whether or not I've caused the damage IMO, I'm with CroydonCorgi in that they are just hiding behind the guarantee small print to avoid meeting their obligations.

The supplier is going to get back to me tomorrow so, fingers crossed, they may come up with something ... They're not at fault though and it really annoys me that I may need to chase them for satisfaction when it's the manufacturer who's at fault.

Glad I put you off buying one, hope I put off a lot more people ... Wait until my webpage is ready

MW

 

[ChrisR]

Perhaps you should ask then what mode of misuse could possibly cause a crack in the orientation shown. Beats me. Are they suggesting you've jumped up and down in it? No need to suggest that the wood has moved, etc, you've just used it as though it was, well, a sink!

There is no period associated with "fitness for purpose" either. If a sink cracks without any evidence as to cause, which implies manufacturing defect, I'd say it isn't fit.

Isn't it interesting how this sink maker professes to know about the materials and their functions in aircraft.

It would be interesting to know how they make their sinks. Specifically if heat is involved. It may not be, directly, but most if not all resins I've come across harden by exothermic reaction. Anything which cools with a mixture of shapes and sections, has residual stress, it's unavoidable. You can't fully anneal a lump of resin.
Ask them who (independent) they would believe. I/we'd like to see more pictures, but I/we've seen quite a lot of sinks, professionally speaking. They would have had quite a range of misuse. But I've never come across one with the sort of crack it looks like. I've seen quite a number of cracks in castings and the like though, pretty similar. Comes with a materials science degree...

Meanwhile post a (perhaps better) picture on/to all the websites you can find, including DIY, Screwfix, kitchen manufacturers and sellers, "Which?", kitchen equipment manufacturers' associations, homes magazines, etc, etc, ec. Present the mfrs with a list before you do it and my guess is they'll see sense.

The retailer may be legally responsible, but the manufacturer has more to lose.

 

[megawatt]

Thanks for the comprehensive response Chris, much appreciated. Good advice about the other sites to post to also.

It's difficult to get a better photo, I've actually taken several but they're all pretty much the same shot as it can only be photo'd from the one point really as it's close to the wall.

I agree that, whilst the retailer may come up with something, the manufacturer is at fault here and, even if the retailer does resolve my immediate issue I will do whatever I can to highlight the shoddy way Astracast have treated the issue.

I'm astounded that they had the audacity to suggest that I could have caused this kind of damage in-situ simply from the photo, without coming to take a more detailed look and all without marking the sink in any way it simply beggars belief

You are quite right about the manufacturer having the most to lose here, reputations are easily damaged and the web is just the medium to make it happen.

MW