Bathroom lights and extractor fan

[matty25]

Hello everyone,

I'm just in the process of replacing my bathroom light pull cord switch to outside the bathroom (to be next to the door with a normal switch not pull cord). I can do this no problem but I've just been up in the loft and found lots of different wires etc which I assume are for the toilet extract fan as the fan comes on when the lights are turned on and then overrun once lights are switched off.

Instead of fitting a single switch i now want to fit a double switch so that one switch controls the lights and the other switch controls the extract fan (noisy in a morning when I get up before the missus to get washed). We would switch it on manually when having shower/bath etc.

Can anyone explain what these wires are please and how they should be wired up to my new switch.

I have uploaded some photos here, the bathroom ceiling has 3 recessed downlights:




Many thanks,
Matt

 

[matty25]

Okay the white circular junction box has three cables going into it from the 3 downlights, then there is a white cable out of the junction box which connects to three cables, first one is the light switch (currently pull cord) and the other two cables i guess are for the extractor fan.

One cable goes off towards the external wall so i guess this is chased into the plasterwork direct to the fan and the other cable goes off and disappears down cavity of a stud partition wall - not sure what this is although when i removed the wall cabinet months ago i found a taped up connector block hidden within the wall (plasterboard notched out to hide it) so not sure what this is for, possibly a redundant supply for an old light or shaving socket?

Any help is much appreciated, many thanks.

Matt

 

[skenk]

You've got a lot of unsheathed cables there and choc blocks not inside choc boxes and unlabeled conductors you'll be wanting to sort out. Also looks like your downlights are too close to the wooden battens (flammable material) - not good. Not to mention all that insulation and the bit of white flex. Taped up choc block hidden behind bathroom cabinet?? . . . . it's not looking good.

Isn't bathroom work notifiable? Are you competent to be doing these works? How you gonna test it when it's done?

 

[matty25]

You've got a lot of unsheathed cables there and choc blocks not inside choc boxes and unlabeled conductors you'll be wanting to sort out. Also looks like your downlights are too close to the wooden battens (flammable material) - not good. Not to mention all that insulation and the bit of white flex. Taped up choc block hidden behind bathroom cabinet?? . . . . it's not looking good.

Isn't bathroom work notifiable? Are you competent to be doing these works? How you gonna test it when it's done?

Thanks for the reply skenk, appreciate your comments. The battens i would imagine were put there to hold the insulation off of the fittings, when i first moved in the first thing i did was to cut out the insulation around the fittings so that it isnt laid over the top.

I agree that the connections need putting in a choc box and I have just bought two today as going to lift the insulation and make sure all connection strips are inside choc boxes so no exposed cables/connections etc.

I would have thought it was fairly straight forward to relocate the switch outside the bathroom, i can do this bit, its just knowing what to do with the cables from the extract fan and how to wire them up to my double socket. I am competent and have done other things before, I am in the construction/building industry but not a spark by trade.

Regards
Matt

 

[rebuke]

Have you notified your LABC about this work, as any electrical work in a bathroom is notifiable under Part P of the building regulations...

It looks like rather a bodge job, so I don't know exactly what's going on (without being there with a meter to test etc it's quite hard to tell), but normally a light and fan would be wired up as follows (looking at the lives only for now):

Incoming supply (from consumer unit / junction box / previous room) --> Light switch plus permanent live terminal of fan

Light switch --> Light fitting and switched live terminal of fan

The neutrals and earths of the light fitting, incoming supply and fan should be connected together.

You will probably have one additional cable which just takes the supply straight off to the next room...

 

[rebuke]

Oops, forgot to finish previous post.

To get what you want, you just need to change it so the switched live to your fan comes from your second switch, rather than the first...

 

[matty25]

rebuke thank you for your help

 

[EdwardCurrent]

Hello.

Maybe this will be of some help.

//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:lighting:fan

Regards,
Ed

 

[RF Lighting]

You've not mentioned anywhere about extending the supplementary bonding to incorporate this circuit, or how you intend to provide RCD protection to this circuit.

Notification to LABC will involve fees, but that is what you are legally obliged to do.

If you want to ignore this advice then fair enough, but don't then expect advice about how to carry out illegal work.

 

[matty25]

You've not mentioned anywhere about extending the supplementary bonding to incorporate this circuit, or how you intend to provide RCD protection to this circuit.

Notification to LABC will involve fees, but that is what you are legally obliged to do.

If you want to ignore this advice then fair enough, but don't then expect advice about how to carry out illegal work.

RF Lighting - so can you help?

Okay, I don't want to do anything illegal, so I can carryout this work myself (being a competent person), get my sparky at work to check it over, then inform Building Control so they can inspect it for compliance with Part P. Is this correct?

Just need to know how to wire up the extract fan then to the switch.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm just in the process of replacing my bathroom light pull cord switch to outside the bathroom (to be next to the door with a normal switch not pull cord).

Why do you want the switches for bathroom lights and fan not to be in the same room as the items they are switching?

Can anyone explain what these wires are please and how they should be wired up to my new switch.

//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:lighting

p.s. damn, sorry for size of photos...

When you uploaded the photos you picked the wrong links to copy & paste:

Isn't bathroom work notifiable?

Depends what it is.

when i first moved in the first thing i did was to cut out the insulation around the fittings so that it isnt laid over the top.

You should build or fit an enclosure around the lights and insulate over that. Not only do you have the problem of heat loss into the loft through the downlights, you'll have warm moist air going in there causing condensation.

http://www.nhbcbuilder.co.uk/NHBCpu...ical/StandardsExtra/filedownload,21353,en.pdf

Have you notified your LABC about this work, as any electrical work in a bathroom is notifiable under Part P of the building regulations...

No - not any work, only some, and if he's installing switches outside the room then it's not in the bathroom anyway...

You've not mentioned anywhere about extending the supplementary bonding to incorporate this circuit, or how you intend to provide RCD protection to this circuit.

Which law or regulation states that he has to add RCD protection to an existing circuit?

Notification to LABC will involve fees, but that is what you are legally obliged to do.

Only if the work is notifiable.

Matty - read Schedule 2B.

 

[matty25]

Thank you Ban-all-sheds,

I want to remove the pull cord for a couple of reasons, firstly it is really loud (pathetic i know) but the missus compains everytime i get up in the morning or late at night about the 'dink dunk' click noise. I have been to B&Q today and couldnt find a silent/quieter one. Secondly I am currently skimming the ceiling (was artex but due to steam from shower artex was hanging off so i've stripped artex off) and now I want to skim ceiling but before I do I want to relocate this switch to outside the bathroom so I can fill the hole left by pull cord switch with plaster. As long as no one turns the light off when i'm taking a dump then we should be okay lol

I've sorted my photo size (i think).

Definately like the enclosures, to be honest will probably do one of two things. a) replace the three downlights with fire protected/rated fittings or b) buy some fire rated hoods similar to your pic.

I will take a read of Schedule 2B.

Thanks again, your answers so far have been much appreciated.

Regards
Matt

 

[matty25]

This seems to be what I have, just not sure how to wire these into a 2 gang switch so that one switch operates the lights and the other switch operates the extract fan:

The two cables in the middle (2) are yellow/green = earth. The yellow cable at the top is from cable red/yellow/blue to the extract fan and is a 3-core and earth cable post Pre March 2004 - this solid yellow cable would be black nowadays.

Any help you can offer would be much appreciated.

Regards
Matt

 

[matty25]

I've updated sketch as follows:

I just need to know which cable goes to which terminals in 2G switch now please. There is 2 switches to the 2G switch, one I want to control the lights and the other I want to control the extract fan.

Regards
Matt

 

[matty25]

Can anyone help please?