Blackened live in switch

Tx all. I think 1.5mm² seems very safe at rating of 15A/3600W so I'd be happy there...

But out of interest for the conversation I'll try and work out the original. I like the suggestion of measuring one strand and calculating from that, we'll have to see if my crappy £20 Amazon callipers are up to the job though:

Diameter of 1 strand = .22mm
Area of 1 strand = 3.1415 * (.11 ^ 2) = 0.0380132711
Tot area of cable (26 wires) = 0.0380132711 * 26 = 0.98834504881

So original is 1mm²

Method seems to work well, even with thin wire and crappy callipers. I guess I might have pinched the malleable copper a bit.
 
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the screw on the blue wire was maybe a little loose or just making a poor connection, clean it up and put it back together nice and tight (tin up the end of the cable for an even better connect). - then see or at least feel if the switch plate gets warm when in use, if it is unduly warm then a new switch or/and heavier cable.
 
the screw on the blue wire was maybe a little loose or just making a poor connection, clean it up and put it back together nice and tight (tin up the end of the cable for an even better connect). - then see or at least feel if the switch plate gets warm when in use, if it is unduly warm then a new switch or/and heavier cable.

Bad suggestion! You should never tin cable ends. Use a crimp furel, but never solder tin a wire to go in a terminal. The solder will creep out under the pressure, leaving the terminal loose.
 
No way am I working that out, but it looks more like 1.5mm2 in your picture, and, as you have indicated, you need 1.5mm2.

:)
 
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Bad suggestion! You should never tin cable ends. Use a crimp furel, but never solder tin a wire to go in a terminal. The solder will creep out under the pressure, leaving the terminal loose.
didn't know that! do some things not arrive from manufacturers with the ends of the wires soldered up, or is that not solder ?
it was something a sparky showed me years ago to get a better connection - can't say I have often used the technique often, would prefer to just double the wires back normally
 
Tinning the ends of wires was always considered good practice on things like panel board wiring.

Is soldering a damaged cable in an inaccessible place a bad idea?
 
No way am I working that out, but it looks more like 1.5mm2 in your picture, and, as you have indicated, you need 1.5mm2.

:)

Interesting, it could well not be a good method then.

Working backwards if the original wire was was 1.5mm² then the diameter of each strand would be:

2 * (sqrt(1.5/(3.1415*26))) = 0.27mm

This is 0.05mm off my measurement of 0.22mm.

My callipers say they are accurate to +/- 0.03mm. Which is probably generous for this usage, measuring a very thin malleable copper wire. So yes I could well believe I'm wrong and this isn't an accurate way of doing things.

The trouble is I guess any inaccuracy in the initial measurement is magnified by a factor of 26 when calculating the total area.
 
Is soldering a damaged cable in an inaccessible place a bad idea?
No, it is one of the acceptable methods - but strictly speaking where it is important, the joint should be mechanically and electrically sound before soldering; the solder to prevent oxidisation of the parts in contact.
 
didn't know that! do some things not arrive from manufacturers with the ends of the wires soldered up, or is that not solder ?
it was something a sparky showed me years ago to get a better connection - can't say I have often used the technique often, would prefer to just double the wires back normally

Yes they do, but the advice is to trim it off, especially where lots of current is involved. Yes, I used to do it too, until I came across a burned, terminal where solder had been used and I researched it.
 
Tinning the ends of wires was always considered good practice on things like panel board wiring.

Is soldering a damaged cable in an inaccessible place a bad idea?

Soldering a joint is good practise, but tinning to insert a flexible wire into a terminal is bad practise, because the solder can be pushed out over time by the pressure of the terminal.
 
Tinning the ends of wires was always considered good practice on things like panel board wiring.

Is soldering a damaged cable in an inaccessible place a bad idea?
Right... In the old days it was common to power down control panels and go over EVERY SCREW TERMINAL and retighten every year. Since moving away from tinned wires the annual service list MAY include checking a very small percentage of terminals and quite often that checking is now limited to anything over a certain size/current.

Historically we used to tin the ends of cables for extension leads etc but it didn't take me very long to realise that is a big mistake, especially when running close to the current rating of plugs and/or cables for extended periods.

Another problem with tinning wires is the solder flows into the spaces inside the insulation and effectively turns it into a solid conductor, whereupon the wire will fatigue much quicker with movement and fail.
 
Historically we used to tin the ends of cables for extension leads etc but it didn't take me very long to realise that is a big mistake, especially when running close to the current rating of plugs and/or cables for extended periods.

Correct! Bootlace ferrules (there, spelled it correctly) are the modern way to do it. Like thesehttps://www.amazon.co.uk/Wire-Ferrules/s?k=Wire+Ferrules
 
Soldering a joint is good practise, but tinning to insert a flexible wire into a terminal is bad practise, because the solder can be pushed out over time by the pressure of the terminal.
Top answer.

So does apply to the already tinned copper cable frequently used nearly 60+ years ago?

And is that why tinned copper cable isn't available now?
 
... Diameter of 1 strand = .22mm ... Area of 1 strand = 3.1415 * (.11 ^ 2) = 0.0380132711
Tot area of cable (26 wires) = 0.0380132711 * 26 = 0.98834504881 ... So original is 1mm² ... Method seems to work well, even with thin wire and crappy callipers. I guess I might have pinched the malleable copper a bit.
No way am I working that out, but it looks more like 1.5mm2 in your picture, and, as you have indicated, you need 1.5mm2. :)
Interesting, it could well not be a good method then.
Your calculation was correct, and I have to say that your answer was so close to 1.0 mm that I would have been tempted to think that your measurement was probably also fairly correct.
Working backwards if the original wire was was 1.5mm² then the diameter of each strand would be: 2 * (sqrt(1.5/(3.1415*26))) = 0.27mm .... This is 0.05mm off my measurement of 0.22mm.
Your calculation is again correct
My callipers say they are accurate to +/- 0.03mm. Which is probably generous for this usage, measuring a very thin malleable copper wire. So yes I could well believe I'm wrong and this isn't an accurate way of doing things. The trouble is I guess any inaccuracy in the initial measurement is magnified by a factor of 26 when calculating the total area.
It's actually a lot 'worse' than that. Not only would an error in your calculated area of one strand be multiplied by 26, but the error in the one-strand error would be related to the square of the error in your measured diameter.

Do I take it that you measured several strands? Also, all that can really go wrong (other than the intrinsic error of the callipers) is that the measuring device can 'squash' a malleable strand. If that happens, the diameter at right angles to one's initial measurement will presumably increase. I therefore always measure at least two or three strands and, at least in some, measure (very gently!) in two planes at right angles - and then take an average of everything. As I said, when I do that, I virtually always get what seems to be a credible (correct?) answer!

I have very little experience of callipers for this sort of measurement (! always use a micrometer) but one with a possible error of 0.03 mm is clearly not really 'fit for purpose' for measuring the sort of small strands we are talking about - since ±0.03 mm is about ±11% of, say, 0.27 mm - and an 11% error in measuring diameter will lead to about a ±23% error in the calculated area.

Having said all that, it wouldn't fully explain how you managed (if you did) to measure 0.27 mm as 0.22 mm, unless you were very 'heavy handed' in squashing the strand with your callipers. I would imagine that the effects of squashing are fairly pro-rata - so if you squashed 27 mm down to 0.22 mm, one might expect that the 'other diameter'; would have increased from0.27 to about 0.32 mm.

Kind Regards, John
Edit: Incorrect attribution of quotes corrected
 
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