Blocked smart meter install: Bunched tails in floating Henley blocks – how to get it sorted?

[Follow4689]

Hi everyone,

Looking for some practical advice from the sparkies on here regarding a messy communal cupboard layout that's blocking me from getting a smart meter. I'm a leaseholder in a block of 4 flats, currently stuck on an inconvenient prepayment key meter. I just want a smart meter fitted, but the physical state of the cupboard is stopping it.

Octopus Energy came out but flatly refused to touch the setup. The engineer's official notes say:"Abort Comments: No space for meter or blocks to be fitted. Bunched tails in neutral floating blocks. Multiple tenants would need to be taken off supply for the meter to be changed. Customer to contact the BNO. TECH CODE TASO13NC"

I've attached the photos of the cupboard. As you can see, the Henley blocks are completely free-floating and hanging by the cables under the meters, right past the main green cutout.

The property management company is dodging it, claiming that because there is no dedicated "landlord supply meter" for the hallway lights, they have no maintenance obligations for any of the wires.

I’m not looking for a legal fight with anyone, I just want a practical solution so I can finally get a smart meter fitted. My questions for the trade:

1. Logistically, how does a job like this actually get fixed? Because it requires taking multiple flats off supply at the main cutout to safely mount these blocks to a backboard, can a local independent electrician request that isolation from National Grid, or does that application legally have to come from the building manager/freeholder?
2. If the management company keeps refusing to get involved, is there any safe, compliant way for me and the other cooperative neighbours to privately hire a sparky to mount these blocks without triggering a massive grid headache?
3. Has anyone dealt with these "floating block" deadlocks in flats before? What's the best practical route forward?

Cheers,

 

[JohnW2]

In addition to the issues you have mentioned, one might also worry about what is going under those various bits of green tape.

Have you already discussed the matter with the leaseholders of the older flats in the building? It sounds as if you probably will, 'as a group', have to commission (and, I suppose, pay for) the mess to be sorted out.

 

[Follow4689]

I havent touched the tape and try not to even go near it.....

Another issue is even if we all group together to pay for it, how can we get it done because it is before all of our meters so people don't want to work on it.

It is also getting the other 3 flats to agree, they aren't bothered. One of them already has a smart meter and the other 2 have no interest so won't spend money.

 

[Old Salt]

The DNO are responsible everything before the meters. The DNO changes according to which area you live in, send them your photos and explain that you want it sorted so Octopus can fit a smart meter.

 

[Follow4689]

The DNO are responsible everything before the meters. The DNO changes according to which area you live in, send them your photos and explain that you want it sorted so Octopus can fit a smart meter.

I have tried that. They even sent an engineer out to have a look. They are saying it is "Private Wiring" as it's after their fuse.

I am in Coventry so it's National Grid (Was western power). I am pretty sure it was Western Power who did it originally.

 

[JohnW2]

I havent touched the tape and try not to even go near it.....

I would strongly advise you not to 'go near it'. However, when it's all 'made safe' (electricity disconnected) someone needs to get the tape off and find out what's going on underneath it.

Another issue is even if we all group together to pay for it, how can we get it done because it is before all of our meters so people don't want to work on it.

If it's before the meters, then no electrician would be allowed to work on it - only the DNO (or, conceivably a 'supplier') could do anything to it.

It is also getting the other 3 flats to agree, they aren't bothered. One of them already has a smart meter and the other 2 have no interest so won't spend money.

If the other flats leaseholders aren't interested in being party to work, then you clearly have a potential problem. As has been suggested, I would think that you probably should contact the DNO, with photos, and tell them that you can't get a 'smart' meter fitted until the mess is sorted out - and see what they advise.

 

[JohnW2]

I have tried that. They even sent an engineer out to have a look. They are saying it is "Private Wiring" as it's after their fuse.

OK, if their taking that view, and since an electrician can't touch anything between the DNO fuse and the meter, then about all you can do is present your current supplier (is that already Octopus?) with that situation and ask them what (who) can sort it out.

 

[Follow4689]

The DNO have basically said it isn't their issue.

They did say they could "try" and fix it for a very large amount of money close to £1000 a few years ago but since then not much.

I was thinking, if I pay them to fit an isolator does that mean they would need to tidy it up at the same time?

(My meter is a 2 rate)

 

[Follow4689]

OK, if their taking that view, and since an electrician can't touch anything between the DNO fuse and the meter, then about all you can do is present your current supplier (is that already Octopus?) with that situation and ask them what (who) can sort it out.

I have been trying that for a couple of years now too. They just conveniently seem to forget, say it's with the engineering team (who don't have any contact details).

 

[JohnW2]

I have been trying that for a couple of years now too. They just conveniently seem to forget, say it's with the engineering team (who don't have any contact details).

Hmmm. It's obviously difficult. Looking at Octopus's 'Abort Comments', perhaps the most problematic is:

"No space for meter or blocks to be fitted. Bunched tails in neutral floating blocks."

One wouldn't really expect them to be happy with those dangling blocks (not to mention the 'green tape issue'!), but if there's no space to fix them to the board, and not enough space on the board for the meter, then it sounds as if some fundamental changes would presumably have to be implemented in the area before they (or anyone) could do anything?

Does your meter bear any markings indicating it's 'expiry/replacement/re-calibration date? If it did, and if that date had already passed, I think you could probably 'demand' that they found some way of replacing the meter, since you would otherwise be paying for electricity on the basis of metering which was beyond its 'certification date' (i.e. could not be guaranteed to be accurate) - and, if they still refused, complain to Ofgem?

 

[flameport]

I am pretty sure it was Western Power who did it originally.

It probably was, before privatisation. In the days when electricity supplies, metering and infrastructure were all done by the Electricity Board and that was that.

However all of that has changed, so wiring in shared areas of flats and the like is now NOT anything to do with the DNO even if they did it originally.
Energy suppliers such as Octopus only do metering, so quite rightly have stated they can't do anything.
The DNO will only work on the main supply cable and the fused cutout. Nothing else.

The items between are now in the no mans land grey zone of 'building network operator' which in many cases doesn't exist.

Logistically, how does a job like this actually get fixed?

Private electrical contractors who are willing to do such work.

If the management company keeps refusing to get involved,

It's an electrical hazard that should never have been allowed to get into that state. Gross negligence by the management company who have obviously never had any of it inspected at any time ever.

safely mount these blocks to a backboard,

Has anyone dealt with these "floating block" deadlocks in flats before? What's the best practical route forward?

The connector blocks don't need to be fixed to a board or anything else - they shouldn't be there at all.
From the very limited photos, all of the wiring between the fuses and meters needs to be removed and completely replaced with new.
All of that timber framing / panelling in front needs to be permanently removed.
Add photos of a wider view of the whole area preferably with all the panels removed if you want further advice.

It is also getting the other 3 flats to agree, they aren't bothered.

They will be bothered when a fault occurs that takes out the entire supply or causes a fire.
After that there will be much wailing and wringing of hands when they discover the insurance is invalid because an obviously shoddy electrical installation had been ignored for years.

 

[Old Salt]

It may be after their fuse but its before your meter. The DNO is responsible up to your meter. Some DNO’s have authorised some electricians to pull the company fuse so you may be able to find someone who can take on the task.

I find it hard to believe that 4 flats come off one fuse. A photo from further back incorporating all of the meters/layout may help confirm.

I know your DNO may ignore this but this is the actual wording in the Distribution Code, basically the practices that all DNO’s have agreed to.

“The System consisting (wholly or mainly) of electric lines
owned or operated by the DNO and used for the distribution of
electricity between the Grid Supply Points or Generation
Sets or other Entry Points to the points of delivery to
Customers or Authorised Electricity Operators, or any
Transmission Licensee within Great Britain and Offshore in
its capacity as operator of the licensee’s Transmission System
or the National Electricity Transmission System and includes
any Remote Transmission Assets (owned by a Transmission
Licensee within Great Britain), operated by the DNO and any
electrical plant and meters and metering equipment owned or
operated by the DNO in connection with the distribution of
electricity, but shall not include any part of the National
Electricity Transmission System”

The important bit has been picked out in bold.

In your situation I would be contacting either the Chairman of National Grid stating

“CHAIRMANS COMPLAINT” or complaining to Ofgem.

I also used to work for National Grid and have worked closely with Ofgem, if neither of these two avenues yield any results I would be writing to MOCOPA care of Gemserv. MOCOPA are the body who address the meter operator code of practice. Make sure you include your photos because somebody has blatantly ignored any and possibly all guidance when fitting/replacing those meters.

This is the address

FAO: AMO Secretary
Talan UK
77 Gracechurch Street
London
EC3V 0AS

Telephone: 020 3416 6990
Email: [email protected]

 

[flameport]

The important bit has been picked out in bold.

That 'important bit' refers to DNO metering as used at distribution points and the like.

Entirely unrelated to metering at end user premises, which is not owned by or operated by any DNO.

somebody has blatantly ignored any and possibly all guidance when fitting/replacing those meters.

They certainly have, but mewling about such things long after the event will achieve nothing.

Records of who it was unfortunately lost, those who fitted it already left the company, that mess must have occurred after the meter was changed, improvements to processes already made so it won't happen in future, etc.
Even if something was done such as a fine or whatever, none of it will fix the janky wiring mess in that building.

 

[JohnW2]

It may be after their fuse but its before your meter. The DNO is responsible up to your meter. Some DNO’s have authorised some electricians to pull the company fuse so you may be able to find someone who can take on the task.

Does it not look as if sorting out the mess would not only involve pulling the DNO fuse but also unsealing the meter? If so, that's presumably not something that the DNO could authorise anyone to do, nor something which I imagine the supplier would be prepared to authorise anyone to do?

I find it hard to believe that 4 flats come off one fuse.

Yes, it does sound very unlikely.

I know your DNO may ignore this but this is the actual wording in the Distribution Code, basically the practices that all DNO’s have agreed to.

“The System consisting (wholly or mainly) of ..... and metering equipment owned or operated by the DNO in connection with the distribution of electricity, ....

The important bit has been picked out in bold.

In continuing their wriggling, would the DNO not probably argue that the metering equipment in question is not "owned or operated" by them?

 

[Old Salt]

A metering engineer can certainly fix that if given the go ahead. You may need to liase with the other occupiers to arrange a convenient time and date and agree with whoever is going to do the work. Any work on the meter or fuse by an authorised person would be okay and they would be resealed on completion. Suppliers generally only get twitchy if they think a meter bypass has taken place.

That 'important bit' refers to DNO metering as used at distribution points and the like.

Entirely unrelated to metering at end user premises, which is not owned by or operated by any DNO.



They certainly have, but mewling about such things long after the event will achieve nothing.

Records of who it was unfortunately lost, those who fitted it already left the company, that mess must have occurred after the meter was changed, improvements to processes already made so it won't happen in future, etc.
Even if something was done such as a fine or whatever, none of it will fix the janky wiring mess in that building.

I am not advocating fines, identifying who did what or when but somebody needs to take charge and sort that shambles out. Without a doubt the management company have some responsibility.

I disagree about the metering element being only related to distribution points but regardless of that it needs sorting as it is an accident waiting to happen.